Why I Am a Muslim (A rebuttal to Ibn Warraq)

Frontpage magazine ^ | Oct. 18, 2004 | Thomas Haidon

[nuconvert]

Hope readers find this interesting and educational.

[NurdlyPeon]

Buddy, what the hell are you talking about?

[pipecorp]

I wonder about a religion that needs so much "change".

[JesseJane]

ditto......

[valkyrieanne]

Several ahadith allude to the fact that death is the appropriate punishment for those who leave Islam. Muslims believe that there is a duality in Islam of the Quran and Sunnah. Objectively speaking, there can be no real duality between the two...

This is a very interesting post, but unfortunately the writer of the article fails to grapple with some very serious questions. The fragment of the paragraph cited above is a good example. He leads off with a fascinating question, but his paragraph just collapses into mumbo-jumbo.

Inquiring minds want to know - and it's probably *the* most critical question on earth right now - how can Muslims remain Muslim and yet not believe that you have to kill either unbelievers or those who leave Islam? That's why Warraq is an atheist - he simply couldn't believe anything else (like Christianity), and his own study of Islam convinced him that according to the *stated scriptural tenets* of Islam, you have to believe that it's a sacred religious duty to kill infidels and apostates. I wish his critic would have been so clear & forthcoming.

[Chani]

bttt

[samadams2000]

Yeah...Why are you a muslim?

[trashcanbred]

It is a shame it is a "significant minority".

This post could probably use some backup as in explaining Sunnah and what he is talking about.

[ReadyNow]

An important part of Islam is to decieve non-believers until they are ripe for conquest or conversion. Is this an example of that?

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

Should we judge or formulate an opinion of religion based on the history and action of its adherents?

No. Islam is what it says it is. I judge Islam by the Qur'an.

Qur'an, 9th Surah (113th and next to last revealed - besides the brief 110th - and not supeceded):

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair [Ezra] is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

[Billthedrill]

I wish him luck. Islam must reform or perish. But the reason that it's going to be difficult is right here in his own words:

The Qu'ran, prescribes no worldly punishment for apostasy, and actually in many ayat affirms the right of man to believe what he chooses... The real confusion arises because of the application of the Sunnah. Several ahadith allude to the fact that death is the appropriate punishment for those who leave Islam. Muslims believe that there is a duality in Islam of the Quran and Sunnah. Objectively speaking, there can be no real duality between the two.

Nor is there in application, which is why in practice apostasy results in a death sentence. What the author proposes in the way of reform is to excise from Islam the practice of using the Sunnah as guidance for the ulema, who dictate the entirity of Islamic jurisprudence. That implies a radical structural change in how Islam is currently administered worldwide. Ain't gonna happen.

[Restorer]

Inquiring minds want to know - and it's probably *the* most critical question on earth right now - how can Muslims remain Muslim and yet not believe that you have to kill either unbelievers or those who leave Islam?

Perhaps in exactly the same way that today's Jews do not literally implement the words of their own holy Books with regard to the execution of witches, apostates and those who show disrespect for their parents, not to mention rules for warfare that are considerably harsher than anything in the Koran.

Judaism was able to reinterpret its message to one more in line with modernity. It is not inconceivable to believe that Islam is capable of doing the same.

However, the reform of Judaism took many centuries. I really doubt Islam will be allowed that luxury. Muslims had better get their act together before the rest of the world loses patience with them.

[nuconvert]

"how can Muslims remain Muslim and yet not believe that you have to kill either unbelievers or those who leave Islam?"

"The Qu'ran, prescribes no worldly punishment for apostasy, and actually in many ayat affirms the right of man to believe what he chooses (at his own peril in terms of the afterlife)."

I believe what he says is, when in doubt, believe the Koran because it is the word of God, not the Sunnah. However, be mindful of allegorical passages in the Koran. This is what the extremists, radicals, terrorists dwell on.

I wish he spent more time on this too. He does give a link for more information. Maybe some feedback at Fronpage would encourage him to expand a bit.

[nuconvert]

"Objectively speaking, there can be no real duality between the two."

I think I answered this in #13.

Yeah reforming a religion is a heck of job.

[dennisw]

You can't make silk purse from a sow's ear. Koran and Hadith document too many of the evil deeds of Muhammed for this to ever be overcome.

[BipolarBob]

I find it interesting that in this article that the question of why jihad has not been renounced when the oppurtunities exist to negotiate a better lifestyle and government for themselves. Each person becomes a player in a voting society instead of a bomb-carrying puppet of some blood-crazed iman. The quicker a government is established and society restored the quicker the coalition can leave. The answer must be the clergy WILL NOT give up their power even if it means the destruction of many people.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

You can't just reject Hadith - they contain almost all the law and rituals of Islam. The vast majority of Muslims will not do that. So the sayings about killing Jews behind every stone are accepted by most Muslims:

Bukhari 4:52:177 - Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

("The Hour" refers to the end of the earth, so this instruction is ongoing.)

[Fred Nerks]

"...I judge Islam by the Qur'an..."

And I judge islam by the nature of the man who, by his ravings and plagiarism from the Original Testament, gave birth to it. Read the biography of the 'prophet' written in 1913 by Canon Edward Sell, Fellow of the University of Madras, complete with ancient arabic sources.

Islam is what mohammad was. See tagline for link to pdf.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

No, Josephus plagiarized. Muhammad bowdlerized ;-)

[Migraine]

Many of the ayat dealing with violence towards non-Muslims are shrouded in allegorical language, including several which are cited by Ibn Waraq. When, read in conjunction with verses espousing peace and freedom of thought, which are generally straightforward (but nonetheless controversial among extremists), it becomes clear that these verses should prevail, because they form the backbone of Islam are consistent with the classical notion of charity ,

Sorry for the long quote, but here is this guy's problem: scholars know (while he feigns to be oblivious) that the verses which take precedence, when there is a seeming contradiction, are the verses more recently revealed and written (you see, the Koran was revealed over a period of years). It is the later verses which advocate the greatest violence. Next case.