Posted on 10/14/2004 9:34:14 AM PDT by No Surrender Monkey
Desperate men often resort to clichéd lines when trying to snare women. Senator John Kerry must be desperate, because he dragged out the tired, misleading statistic about the so-called wage gap during last night's debate; namely, that women only earn 76 cents for each man's dollar.
This factoid comes from Department of Labor data on the average wage of a full-time working woman and the average wage of a full-time working man. And, yes, if you look at those numbers you will find that the average woman earns about three quarters of the income of the average man.
But that statistic ignores many relevant factors that affect a worker's take-home pay. For starters, it doesn't adjust for number of years worked. On average, women spend about a decade out of the workforce to care for their families. It should come as no surprise to Senator Kerry that a 35-year-old woman reentering the workforce after ten years off earns less than a man or woman who worked continuously during that time.
The wage-gap statistic also fails to consider educational attainment. Today, women earn more than half of all bachelor's and master's degrees, but it wasn't always that way. Older women in the workforce tend to have less education than their male peers, which affected their career path, their salaries, and ultimately Department of Labor data.
Women and men also often have different priorities when assessing employment opportunities. One survey of working women found that for nearly three quarters a flexible schedule was "very important" when considering a job. This means that many women are willing to trade more money for more flexibility or time off.
(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...
I have no idea. Do you?
Hey, I get MORE than the average guy, because I have to do it in a fringe skirt and high boots.
No, which is why I suspect it might not be a) verifiable or b) strictly speaking, true.
That was a leap counselor.
Does your firm approve of your extra curricular activities? They hardly seem professional to me.
Answer the questions, Ms. Obfuscate.
I think I'll pray for something that needs praying for instead. For instance, I'll pray that you become a grownup. I'll pray that you learn to read. I'll pray that you take a class in logic so you can see what an idiot you have been on this thread. I'll pray that you become a woman who is not only nominally a Bush fan, but logically a conservative, instead of a kneejerk one who cannot help but drive others away from the GOP with her inability to defend her ideas.
You see, unlike you, I'm OPEN to the idea that women are discriminated against. But I've looked at the facts--not from just one side that made me feel better, as you have--and I know better. I also know that you can't answer questions that have anything to do with your argument. Heck, given my last post, it's hard for you to deny you have severe difficulty keeping a story straight.
"Still, in the IT area, men usually make better money and/or get more promotions than women with the equivalent level of experience and skills."
Baloney. It's been the opposite where I've worked, because there are fewer women in this field and the companies still have to meet their (supposedly non-existent) quotas.
"And women struggle disproportionately to balance work and raise a family"
I'm sure there are no men on FR who balance work and raising a family. Must be "woman's work". </sarcasm>
That means that men don't have to cook, clean, run the children around, buy groceries, etc.
A hard concept for you I'm sure.
Not only am I a bitch but I'm also a liar? I guess you think that only women lie also. I'm not surprised.
Like I said, you are a real credit to your gender.
Answer the questions I posted above.
You keep saying "I proved your point." I don't think you know what that phrase means.
See, 'proving your point' would mean that my comments proved somehow that women are paid less than men. And I have said nothing that would even lend support to that argument.
Frankly, I'm not comforting Polybius, either, in pointing out your inane comments. I'm sure he's every bit as disappointed and disturbed by them as I am. A conservative on this board should be making claims he or she can back up. You can't, and your persistence in the face of it is folly.
But in a way, I appreciate your irrelevant comments. They do improve my ability to wade through details to get to the important issue. Which again, of course, you avoid. The issue here, as you forget, is your original claim that women are paid less than men.
You provided yourself as an example. I asked you to qualify that example. You have consistently refused to do so. That you do not do so does not actually PROVE my point outright, either (again, so you understand how the term works). But it does certainly lend significant credence to it in that you've avoided answering questions whose answers are likely highly probative.
But to go back to your silly boardroom/strip club comments: How would you know? You'd have to go to the strip clubs with them to hear any of these 'anti-women comments' you imagine are spewed willy-nilly.
No, you are again making things up out of whole cloth. Any man who's ever been to a strip club knows better than that. As if men sit around in strip clubs talking about women in negative fashion or making board policy. You really are an Andrea Dworkin wanna-be, aren't you? I suppose you would prefer men were forced to go to Chippendales with you instead, to avoid this 'problem' you imagine.
And to hear you're 'not surprised,' well, gosh golly, I'm stunned. /sarcasm Make up your own 'truths,' and you'll never be surprised by them!
You're losing it. Calm down. Why don't you head to the strip club and be with your buddies.
"That means that men don't have to cook, clean, run the children around, buy groceries, etc. "
No, quite simple, actually.
I don't know how old you are but your info is definitely dated. The surveys now show that men are helping out around the house alot.
Oh, maybe your husband is a loser and you are mad at men because of that, too.
You fit in just fine with the other women-haters on this thread. They must have pinged you to come on over.
Younger men are helping out more. Older men are like the guys on this thread.
More women, by choice, are chosing not to marry. Especially when the choice is to be married to some on this thread or earning a good living.
The "mad at men" theory is as old as you must be. It's used by so many who know so little.
Translation: BushisTheMan still can't find the facts to back up her claims so she throws out The Victim Card yet again.
Has anybody been keeping track of how many times BushisTheMan has thrown out The Victim Card on this thread?
My favorite Victim Card was when she blamed her own parents for her current station in life. (See Post 120.)
"The 'mad at men' theory is as old as you must be."
Nah, probably older. Of course it seems fresh and new with you around.
Have you ever considered counseling or some sort of therapy to deal with your anger? It's eating you up inside and causing you to be bitter.
"excuse me miss, but does this napkin smell like chloroform to you??"
"You post it. The research might do you some good."
Logic problem: Shifting the burden/Argumentum ad ignorantiam
The bald versus acne is an old and stupid argument and you probably know it.
Logic problem: Argumentum ad Antiquitatem, bold claim.
No one, not even the women you think are so stupid, think that you shouldn't be paid more based on your experience.
Logic problem: DOUBLE straw man
There are studies that compare women who haven't taken any time off with men who haven't taken any time off. Started work the same year with the same degrees. Stats prove the woman are making less. You can't claim discrimination if they are working at different companies. But it exists.
Logic problem: A bold claim without true premises. Such statistics, if they exist, should be provided by the claimant. Claiming they exist without citing them is the same as the argument here, that is, it's also a bold claim.
Do the research, you might learn something.
Logic problem: Shifting the burden/Argumentum ad ignorantiam
And of course, this post is rife with the standard fallacy BushIsTheMan utilizes in 'arguing,' the argument ad nauseum.
You know you have a problem when you have to debate every sentence, don't you?
Hmmm, and I was going to recommend counseling to you.
Code word used only for women: bitter
Nice. You should try all the others used early also. bitch, rump, liar, man-hater, etc.
"Nice. You should try all the others used early also. bitch, rump, liar, man-hater, etc"
Hey, whatever fits. You choose.
I have a single brother who says he dated someone just like you. It's convinced him that being single isn't so bad after all, compared to the alternative.
Well, some of us have to work, so I have to leave this lively banter to you and the rest of the gang on FR
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