Posted on 10/11/2004 10:29:04 AM PDT by EagleUSA
I don't know. You gave a couple of pretty broad generalizations; "anyone" and "money".
And 5-year-olds can and do have SSNs and pay into SS. The Olsen twins have been paying into SS since they were infants.
So, are you talking about 5-year-olds or was there another class of people paying into SS to which you were referring when you answered, "anyone" and "money"?
For all I know the writers could just hate all foreigners...perhaps they have a hidden agenda, purposely tossing out not specifics so that people can speculate and try to prove whatever they want with it.
More broad generalizations. The writers of what? The writers of the Bible, the writers of the Constitution, the writers of the Social Security Protection Act of 2004 or the writers of the documents to which I'd posted links?
... and just because they label something a conclusion does not make it one.
By the same token, just because you're unable to discern a conclusion doesn't mean the author(s) didn't include one.
Do you seriously have a problem with the meaning of the word "anyone" ?
ANYONE who pays into social security under their valid SSN can rightfully have an expectation of getting that value back.
Do you have a problem understanding that statement ?
I understand your statement.
Do you understand that according to the Social Security Protection Act signed into law on March 2, 2004 by George Bush says that illegals who pay into SS may not collect benefits for the period for which they were working illegally in the US?
Do you also understand that the Totalization Agreement with Mexico is in violation of this law?
"Do you understand that according to the Social Security Protection Act signed into law on March 2, 2004 by George Bush says that illegals who pay into SS may not collect benefits for the period for which they were working illegally in the US? "
Why don't you explain it to the ways and means people ? they don't seem to agree with you -
Whether or not a totalization agreement exists, unauthorized immigrants may receive credit toward Social Security for their work, but they cannot collect benefits while living in the United States until they obtain legal resident or U.S. citizen status. In addition, under the recently passed Social Security Protection Act of 2004 (P.L. 108-203), a non-citizen must have been authorized to work in the United States at some point during their career in order to be eligible for benefits, effective for individuals filing for benefits based on Social Security numbers issued on or after January 1, 2004.
I don't need to explain it to anyone. I'm not wrong. You are.
This matter was explained in detail in the Judiciary Committee letter to Barnhart.
If I got it wrong, then so did Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner and Sub-committee chairman John Hostettler:
"Congress designed section 211 of SSPA to prevent – in most cases – individuals from receiving Social Security retirement or disability benefits on the basis of work illegally performed by aliens in the United States. The Senate Finance Committee’s Report, filed with the legislation, stated (regarding section 211) that “[i]ndividuals who were never legally permitted to work in the United States should not be able to collect Social Security benefits on the basis of their illegal earnings. The Social Security program should not reward those who violate our immigration laws.” The Social Security Trust Fund will face enough challenges to its solvency in future decades without being dissipated by payments based on work performed illegally in the United States. Additionally, there is no greater magnet for illegal immigration to the U.S. than the availability of jobs, and allowing illegal work to qualify for Social Security retirement and disability benefits only adds to the allure of such work and our difficulty in controlling the Nation’s borders."
The passage you quoted only says that while an illegal alien may receive SS credit for work performed illegally here in the US, they may not collect benefits while still in the US until they've obtained legal resident or US citizen status.
The very next paragraph of the Ways and Means Fact sheet explains how the illegal alien may receive benefits for illegal work in the US:
"...Generally, non-citizen retired or disabled workers living outside the United States for more than 6 consecutive months may not receive benefits unless they meet one of several exceptions. For example, a non-citizen retired or disabled worker may receive payments outside the United States (including benefits based on unauthorized work in the United States) if he/she is a citizen of a country that has a social insurance system that pays benefits to eligible U.S. citizens residing outside that country, which Mexico does."
Prior to the Totalization Agreement, there was no way for a Mexican illegal alien to receive any benefits because if they were here illegally, they weren't eligible and they couldn't receive benefits at home because the US and Mexico had not executed a Totalization agreement.
Now that the US and Mexico have a Totalization Agreement (which does not have any provision to segregrate legal earnings from illegal earnings), the Mexican illegal alien can have the SSA benefit check (for work performed while in the US illegally) mailed to him at home, in Mexico in violation of the provisions in Section 211 of the SSPA.
"Whether or not a totalization agreement exists, unauthorized immigrants may receive credit toward Social Security for their work, but they cannot collect benefits while living in the United States"
It says they cannot collect while living in the states, it does NOT say they cannot collect while living outside the states....
You seem to be missing that they keep saying "should not" NOT cannot.
"The Social Security Trust Fund will face enough challenges to its solvency in future decades without being dissipated by payments based on work performed illegally in the United States."
I think the blame here lies in the fact that the Congress has authorized benifits in excess of the payments made into the system - It dosen't matter who pays in, legal or not, if the system pays out more then the value taken in... it goes broke.
This whole think is a total smokescreen to hide the fact that for years the SS system has been living way beyond it's means.
Do you seriously think that Mexicans will flock up here, somehow get a legal SSN, find an employer who will actually take the money out and send it in, and pay into the system, in the hopes that someday they will get some money back from a system that everyone knows is unsustainable ? ... Or even worse pay into it under a phoney name in the hopes that they can prove it to someone later ?
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