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BACKUP VOTING SYSTEM WOES MAY LOOM ANEW
iwon.com ^ | 10 October 2004 | ANNE GEARAN

Posted on 10/10/2004 7:22:21 PM PDT by dixie sass

WASHINGTON (AP) - Call it the law of unintended consequences. A new national backup system meant to ensure that millions of eligible voters are not mistakenly turned away from the polls this year, as happened in 2000, could wind up causing Election Day problems as infamous as Florida's hanging chads.

Congress required conditional, or provisional, voting as part of election fixes passed in 2002. For the first time, all states must offer a backup ballot to any voter whose name does not appear on the rolls when the voter comes to the polling place on Nov. 2. If the voter is later found eligible, the vote counts.

But Congress did not specify exactly how the provisional votes will be evaluated.

Add the ordinary problems that come with doing something new, and the result is a recipe for mix-ups at the polls and lawsuits over alleged unequal treatment of some voters, said Doug Chapin, executive director of Electionline.org, a nonpartisan clearinghouse for information on election reform.

"If I had to pick the one thing that will be source of controversy on Election Day, it will be provisional voting," Chapin said.

State election officials have adopted their own and differing standards for when a provisional ballot will count; some of those rules are still in flux three weeks from the election.

Rules for who casts provisional ballots and how they are counted probably will vary even within states, especially if there are long lines, confusion and hot tempers at the polls, election experts said.

Some of the states where the race is tightest, such as Florida and Ohio, also have the strictest rules for provisional ballots.

Democrats and Republicans are training lawyers and election monitors to look for problems with provisional voting this year. Already, there are suits in five states claiming election officials are adopting too strict a standard for which votes will count and that eligible voters will be denied the right to vote as a result.

Questions about provisional ballots could produce a major battle after the election, too, with nightmarish echoes of the Florida fight of 2000.

Lawyers for President Bush and Democratic challenger John Kerry are ready for a new overtime contest in states where, if the election is close enough, the winner could be determined by who gets the most valid provisional votes.

Like Florida's punch cards, provisional ballots are pieces of paper that must be evaluated individually and counted by hand. The task is time-consuming, and most states have short deadlines to get the job done, said Doug Lewis, director of the Election Center, a nonpartisan research and training organization for state and local election administrators.

Postelection suits could resemble the Supreme Court's Bush v. Gore case that settled the 2000 election. The justices said it was unfair for Florida counties to apply different standards during punch card recounts, and there was not time to fix the problem.

Twenty-six states and the District of Columbia have adopted the view that a provisional ballot must be cast in the correct precinct, or it will not count.

Under that interpretation, voters unaware that their polling place has moved could be out of luck. So could voters given wrong information about their polling place. It would not matter whether the mistake was the voter's fault or a clerical error.

Other states will count a voter's choice for president and other national offices even if the ballot is not cast in the right local polling station. Votes for some purely local races might not count, but the theory goes that the voter should not lose out entirely just because of a ballot case in one precinct rather than another.

Provisional voting is not entirely new. About half the states offered something similar in 2000.

It is impossible to predict how many people will cast provisional ballots this year, said Curtis Gans, director of the nonpartisan Committee for the Study of the American Electorate.

It will easily be in the tens of thousands, however. In 2000 in Los Angeles County, the nation's largest voting district, about 101,000 people voted provisionally. Of those, about 61,000 votes were determined to be valid.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: ballot; electionfraud; illegal; legal; provisionalballot; registeration; votefraud; voting
...and there will be shouting and gnashing of teeth and rending of hair at the polls.
1 posted on 10/10/2004 7:22:22 PM PDT by dixie sass
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To: SC Swamp Fox; scoastie; LowCountryJoe; ccfromsc

This should run hand in glove with your story Swampy.


2 posted on 10/10/2004 7:23:45 PM PDT by dixie sass (Texas - South Carolina on Steroids)
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To: dixie sass
Call it the law of unintended consequences. A new national backup system meant to ensure that millions of eligible voters are not mistakenly turned away from the polls this year, as happened in 2000, could wind up causing Election Day problems as infamous as Florida's hanging chads.

What the **** are they talking about? The press found one guy "mistakenly turned away from the polls" in 2000. And he ended up casting his ballot after his issue was resolved anyway...
3 posted on 10/10/2004 7:25:01 PM PDT by swilhelm73 (I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country -John Edwards)
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To: dixie sass

And rioting in the streets if they eff it up again this time.


4 posted on 10/10/2004 7:25:04 PM PDT by clee1 (Islam is a deadly plague; liberalism is the AIDS virus that prevents us from defending ourselves.)
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To: dixie sass

Their goons are already positioning --- and here again the liberal Dem mouthpiece -- AP -- is frothing all over the possibility that the scummy Dems will upset the applecart with frivolous BS about voting....their now standard practice.

Anything, anything for power.


5 posted on 10/10/2004 7:25:30 PM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: dixie sass

More LIBERAL LUNACY

Where is the DOCUMENTATION that MILLIONS were turned away? That is nothing but "elitist media" and dnc PROPOGANDA.


6 posted on 10/10/2004 7:27:03 PM PDT by TheEnigma47 (kerry will NEVER deserve forgiveness for his treachery to America's Military)
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To: swilhelm73; All
If you recall the media tried to give FL to Gore in 2000
VNS was a private consortium owned by
ABC News, The Associated Press, CBS News, CNN, Fox News, and NBC.

4 of the 5 of the networks and cable newsrooms
(only ABC waited till both time zones closed)
"announced" Gore had won
BEFORE the 2nd time zone in FL had closed.
This cost President Bush votes in the FL panhandle.

I was at a friends house and the State of FL election website results showed President Bush was winning

In fact, the networks which called Florida for Gore did so early in the evening—before polls had even closed in the Florida panhandle, which is part of the Central Time Zone. NBC called Florida for Gore at 7:49:40 p.m., Eastern Time. This was 10 minutes before polls closed in the Florida panhandle. Thirty seconds later, CBS called Florida for Gore. And at 7:52 p.m., Fox called Florida for Gore. Moore never lets the audience know that Fox was among the networks which made the error of calling Florida for Gore prematurely. Then at 8:02 p.m., ABC called Florida for Gore. Only ABC had waited until the Florida polls were closed.

About an hour before the polls closed in panhandle Florida,
the networks called the U.S. Senate race in favor of the Democratic candidate.

The premature calls may have cost Bush thousands of votes from the conservative panhandle, as discouraged last-minute voters heard that their state had already been decided;
some last-minute voters on their way to the polling place turned around and went home. Other voters who were waiting in line left the polling place. In Florida, as elsewhere, voters who have arrived at the polling place before closing time often end up voting after closing time, because of long lines. The conventional wisdom of politics is that supporters of the losing candidate are most likely to give up on voting when they hear that their side has already lost. Thus, on election night 1980, when incumbent President Jimmy Carter gave a concession speech while polls were still open on the west coast, the early concession was blamed for costing the Democrats several Congressional seats in the West, such as that of 20-year incumbent James Corman. The fact that all the networks had declared Reagan a landslide winner while west coast voting was still in progress was also blamed for Democratic losses in the West; Congress even held hearings about prohibiting the disclosure of exit polls before voting had ended in the any of the 48 contiguous states.

Even if the premature television calls affected all potential voters equally, the effect was to reduce Republican votes significantly, because the Florida panhandle is a Republican stronghold. Most of Central Time Zone Florida is in the 1st Congressional District, which is known as the "Redneck Riviera." In that district, Bob Dole beat Bill Clinton by 69,000 votes in 1996, even though Clinton won the state by 300,000 votes.

So depress overall turnout in the panhandle,
and you will necessarily depress more Republican than Democratic votes.

A 2001 study by John Lott suggested that the early calls cost Bush at least 7,500 votes,
and perhaps many more.

At 10:00 p.m., which network took the lead in retracting the premature Florida win for Gore?
The first retracting network was CBS, not Fox.

Over four hours later, at 2:16 a.m., Fox projected Bush as the Florida winner,
as did all the other networks by 2:20 a.m.

At 3:59 a.m., CBS took the lead in retracting the Florida call for Bush. All the other networks, including Fox, followed the CBS lead within eight minutes. That the networks arrived at similar conclusions within a short period of time is not surprising, since they were all using the same data from the Voter News Service. (Linda Mason, Kathleen Francovic & Kathleen Hall Jamieson, “CBS News Coverage of Election Night 2000: Investigation, Analysis, Recommendations” (CBS News, Jan. 2001), pp. 12-25.)


The big 5 media TV and Cable newsrooms are the real threat to the 2004 election.

..."Early on Tuesday, November 7th 2000, TV stations and various media based in Florida reported that Gore has won Florida which was a big surprise for everyone because of strong republican support. Bush's brother Jeb is governor there and Florida usually gives support to the Republicans. Some of them questioned that and during the night CNN showed 52% Bush's lead over 46% for Gore. It is almost impossible to believe that media could have been that blind and biased to report Gore's victory."...



7 posted on 10/10/2004 7:29:32 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (GET OUT THE VOTE NOV 2 ! IF YOUR NEIGHBORS OR RELATIVES NEED A RIDE TO THE POLLS OFFER TO HELP)
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To: swilhelm73

South Carolina has always had a back up system for folks. Most people know where they are supposed to vote - it's on our voter registeration card.

We are always willing to help the voter to find the correct precinct, even if it is in another county. There are those people who have just moved to Dorchester from other counties and didn't have there voter registration updated in time so we help them find where they are to vote or if they can cast a paper ballot.


8 posted on 10/10/2004 7:31:26 PM PDT by dixie sass (Texas - South Carolina on Steroids)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Thanks Tonk. I wish that the media would self impose a blackout of all election information for at least 24 to 48 hours. That way the whole nation can vote without being influenced by the what has happened on the East Coast.

Hawaii is what - five hours behind us and the West Coast is three? The people are already hearing that candidate XYZ has won and a lot of people don't go to the polls because of it.

There were a lot of accusations about the East Coast is always the one that really elects the President because the press has access to the information after the polls close here and they are still open in the central, mountain, pacific and Hawaii and Alaska and territories.


9 posted on 10/10/2004 7:40:13 PM PDT by dixie sass (Texas - South Carolina on Steroids)
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To: dixie sass
There is no "law of unintended consequences".

There's a Murphy's law, a Peter principle, etc., but there is not now, nor has there ever been a "law of unintended consequence". Whoever came up with the idea didn't pass on the "law" part. Anyone?

law of unintended consequences

10 posted on 10/10/2004 7:40:50 PM PDT by GOPJ (If 260 National Guard vets said Bush was an incompetent liar, the NYTimes would cover it.)
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To: dixie sass
"A new national backup system meant to ensure that millions of eligible voters are not mistakenly turned away from the polls this year, as happened in 2000, could wind up causing Election Day problems as infamous as Florida's hanging chads. "

I seriously doubt that any eligible voter was turned away from the polls in 2000. As for "hanging chads" I have this image burned into my memory of this ridiculous "goober" with the magnifying glass examining punched cards looking for "hanging," "swinging," and whatever chads on the punched cards. What a bunch of crap that was!!

11 posted on 10/10/2004 7:41:04 PM PDT by davisfh
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To: GOPJ

Oh well, you know the press - they've always got to be different!


12 posted on 10/10/2004 7:41:50 PM PDT by dixie sass (Texas - South Carolina on Steroids)
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To: davisfh

I remember those days very well...


13 posted on 10/10/2004 7:42:43 PM PDT by dixie sass (Texas - South Carolina on Steroids)
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To: dixie sass

I pray for America every night

The stakes are too high.

The highest they have ever been, in my opinion.


14 posted on 10/10/2004 7:51:24 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (GET OUT THE VOTE NOV 2 ! IF YOUR NEIGHBORS OR RELATIVES NEED A RIDE TO THE POLLS OFFER TO HELP)
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To: dixie sass

This is possibly one of the dumbest ideas ever. If you move after the registration deadline, get an absentee ballot. If you're too dumb to know the correct precinct, which should be on your registration card, you're probably too dumb to vote! I like the excuse that some people can't read! This is just another way for the Democrats to delay the results.


15 posted on 10/10/2004 7:57:41 PM PDT by unbalanced but fair
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To: dixie sass
A new national backup system meant to ensure that millions of eligible voters are not mistakenly turned away from the polls this year, as happened in 2000, could wind up causing Election Day problems as infamous as Florida's hanging chads.

With such a blatant inaccuracy (i.e. lie) as this in the first sentence, it is quite apparent that reading the rest of the article is a waste of time. (Reading the comments after, however, is always worthwhile.)

16 posted on 10/10/2004 10:40:24 PM PDT by exDemMom (Think like a liberal? Oxymoron!)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

So do I, Tonk. People just won't stop and think, we see that everyday with some of the people here on FR and other sites, conservative or otherwise.

People seem to think this is a game...


How wrong can they be?


17 posted on 10/11/2004 11:17:41 PM PDT by dixie sass (Texas - South Carolina on Steroids)
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To: dixie sass

How Democrats Steal Elections - Top 10 Methods of Liberal Vote Fraud

1. Over-Voting. In Democrat strongholds like St. Louis, Philadelphia and Detroit, some precincts had 100% of their registered voters voting, with 99% of the ballots going to Gore. Clearly, multiple voting resulted in extra tallies for Gore in the 2000 election. (New York Post, 12/09/00).

2. Dead Voters. This classic Democratic method of vote fraud goes all the way back to 1960 in Chicago and Dallas. The 2000 election was no exception. In Miami-Dade County, for example, some of the 144 ineligible votes (those which officials actually admitted to) were cast by dead people, including a Haitian-American who's been deceased since 1977 (Miami-Herald, 12/24/00).

3. Mystery Voters. These "voters" cast votes anyway but are not even registered to vote. In heavily Democratic Broward County, for example, more than 400 ballots were cast by non-registered voters. (Miami-Herald 1/09/01)

4. Military ballots. Many of these votes were disqualified for the most mundane and trivial reasons. At least 1,527 valid military ballots were discarded in Florida by Democratic vote counters (Drudge Report, 11/19/00).

5. Criminals. Felons are a natural Democratic voter and they're protected on voter rolls across the country. In Florida at least 445 ex-convicts - including rapists and murderers -- voted illegally on November 7th. Nearly all of them were registered Democrats. (Miami-Herald 12/01/00)

6. Illegal aliens. These voters have long been a core liberal constituency, especially in California. In Orange County in 1996, Rep. Bob Dornan had his congressional seat stolen from him when thousands of illegal aliens voted for Loretta Sanchez (Christian Science Monitor, 9/2/97).

7. Vote-buying. Purchasing votes has long been a traditional scheme by Democrats, and not just with money. In the 2000 election in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Democratic workers initiate a "smokes-for-votes" campaign in which they paid dozens of homeless men with cigarettes if they cast ballots for Al Gore (Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, 11/14/00).

8. Phantom Voters. These voters don't really exist, but their ballots do. In the 1996 Lousiana Senate race, GOP candidate Woody Jenkins had the election stolen from him when he discovered that 7,454 actual votes were cast but had no paper trail to authenticate them (Behind the Headlines, F.R. Duplantier, 4/27/97).

9. Dimpled chads. Those infamous punch-cards were a ballot bonanza for Al Gore. Democratic poll workers in Palm Beach, Dade and Broward counties tampered and manipulated thousands of ineligible ballots and counted them for Gore, even though no clear vote could be discerned. (NewsMax.com 11/27, 12/22, 11/18, 11/19/00).

10. Absentee ballots. Normally it's assumed that Republicans benefit from absentee ballots. But in the case of Miami's 1997 mayoral election, hundreds of absentee ballots were made for sale or sent out to non-Miami residents. Fraud was so extensive in the race that the final results were overturned in court (FL Dept. of Law Enforcement Report, 1/5/98)."

SOURCE: http://www.conservativeaction.org/resources.php3?nameid=votefraud

Links on freerepublic:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=electionfraud
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=votefraud

WE MUST FIGHT VOTE FRAUD!


18 posted on 10/14/2004 11:58:03 AM PDT by hripka (There are a lot of smart people out there in FReeperLand)
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