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THINK MALPRACTICE INSURANCE DOESN'T COST YOU?
Pacetown ^ | 10.07.04 | Jeremy Chrysler

Posted on 10/07/2004 8:43:24 AM PDT by thepace

John Edwards said the other night, regarding Bush and Cheney's proposed medical liability reform:

Because, in context, everything they're proposing, according to the bipartisan Congressional Budget Office, amounts to about half of 1 percent of health-care costs in this country -- half of one percent.

There are a lot of ways that he could represent this so that it was technically true, but the thrust of this statement -- that huge malpractice payouts do not affect what you pay for health insurance -- is patently untrue. I don't necessarily think that Bush's health care plan will solve all of our problems, but medical liability represents one of the most solvable of our healthcare problems, and we have to fix it.

First of all, YOU and I pay for these large payouts in court. If a jury awards a woman $20 million in pain and suffering, the doctor's insurance company may write the $20 million check, but it is you and I who ultimately pay for it.

The insurance company has to raise premiums to offset their risk and to protect their profit margins...they pass these increased costs on to the doctors. The doctors, in order to continue to run their businesses, raise their costs, which you pay directly or your insurer pays. If your insurer pays, they ultimately have to raise premiums. If your employer pays your premiums, they ultimately have to pay you less money in order to do so. YOU PAY FOR IT, AND YOU PAY A LOT.

Take for example, a doctor in Illinois, a state which has no pain and grief caps on malpractice

(Excerpt) Read more at spacetownusa.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: healthcare; insurance; johnedwards; malpractice; medicalliability; tortreform
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1 posted on 10/07/2004 8:43:24 AM PDT by thepace
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To: thepace
A few years ago, there was a comprehensive list of common objects (stepladder, bucket, mpt, heaters, etc.) comparing the price before and after the litigation exposure. I wish I could find it.

One dramatic example: in the current price of a stepladder, 75% is liability insurance.

2 posted on 10/07/2004 8:49:02 AM PDT by Publius6961 (I, also, don't do diplomacy.)
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To: thepace
I've always wondered about the following scenario. If I go to the doctor and tell him I will pay straight cash (no insurance forms to deal with) and waive my right to sue, how much cheaper would the visit be?

Any docs out there?

3 posted on 10/07/2004 8:50:11 AM PDT by A Ruckus of Dogs
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To: A Ruckus of Dogs

I can't say about docs, but, as I referenced in an old post, my Shih Tzu spent a night at the hospital with six paid staff and a Vet, had a 16 hour IV, painkillers, x-rays and ultrasound, and it only cost $734 dollars. A few years back, I banged my head, had to go to the emergency room, was there for four hours with no IV and no overnight stay, and no ambulance, and it cost $6,000.

Where is that difference coming from?

Inefficiency of 3rd parting paying and liability. Plus, the pet market wouldn't tolerate such ridiculous costs.

You will be happy to know that my dog now has comprehensive health insurance, which costs $11.42 / month. I would happily spend the night in a stainless steel cage with a bed of blankets if I could reduce my health care costs by 90%, and I bet most people would do the same...


4 posted on 10/07/2004 8:55:17 AM PDT by thepace
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To: thepace

My cat spent a week at the vet last November. Had an IV, catheture, daily blood work,medication, full time attention...and it only cost $350 (including the medicine to take home and a $25 bag of cat food).

Had one blood work myself that cost over $1,000......Think I'll start going to my vet for myself.


5 posted on 10/07/2004 9:01:34 AM PDT by hoosiermama (Bush Democrats = Zell's Angels)
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To: thepace

The increased insurance premiums and Dr.'s fees are only a part of the picture. The much larger, hidden costs are the defensive measures doctors and hospitals take in order to avoid lawsuits. This includes large batteries of largely unnecessary tests, referrals to specialists whether required or not.... Doctors need to CYA just in case somebody files a lawsuit down the road.


6 posted on 10/07/2004 9:02:31 AM PDT by CR
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To: thepace

It is the lawyers and their impractical, arrogant, exhorbitant fees that are costing us, in medicine, and in business in general, not to mention in gov't and politics.


7 posted on 10/07/2004 9:16:34 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: CR
I read someplace that doctors win 80% of malpractice lawsuits.

Gross negligence should certainly be actionable (surgeon comes in drunk, for example), but we have to acknowledge the fact that doctors are humans who make mistakes. Until we accept a certain rate of error, malpractice costs will continue to be make healthcare unaffordable for more and more people.

8 posted on 10/07/2004 9:17:23 AM PDT by A Ruckus of Dogs
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To: CR
The increased insurance premiums and Dr.'s fees are only a part of the picture. The much larger, hidden costs are the defensive measures doctors and hospitals take in order to avoid lawsuits. This includes large batteries of largely unnecessary tests, referrals to specialists whether required or not.... Doctors need to CYA just in case somebody files a lawsuit down the road.

And these days, the diagnostic tools available are more expensive than they were 10-15 years ago -- MRI instead of CT scan, CT instead of x-ray, etc.

9 posted on 10/07/2004 9:26:29 AM PDT by NYC GOP Chick (Here by the sea and sand, nothing ever goes as planned)
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To: A Ruckus of Dogs
Gross negligence should certainly be actionable (surgeon comes in drunk, for example), but we have to acknowledge the fact that doctors are humans who make mistakes. Until we accept a certain rate of error, malpractice costs will continue to be make healthcare unaffordable for more and more people.

It's not just a matter of doctors being human or making errors, but the fact that many outcomes are an "Act of G-d." Despite the best medical care, the most brilliant and competent doctors, patients sometimes die anyway.

10 posted on 10/07/2004 9:29:43 AM PDT by NYC GOP Chick (Here by the sea and sand, nothing ever goes as planned)
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To: thepace
Add to the list the cost of flu vacines (and the potential loss of life from their shortage) and the loss of Vioxx. If Celebrex goes the way of Vioxx, I will not be able to get out of bed in the morning.

Thank you, John Edwards.

11 posted on 10/07/2004 9:31:38 AM PDT by MHT
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To: NYC GOP Chick

That's true as well. Another thing we have trouble accepting is the fact that we are mortal.


12 posted on 10/07/2004 9:40:15 AM PDT by A Ruckus of Dogs
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To: A Ruckus of Dogs

"I've always wondered about the following scenario. If I go to the doctor and tell him I will pay straight cash (no insurance forms to deal with) and waive my right to sue, how much cheaper would the visit be?"

The "right to sue" cannot be waived. Such an agreement would be invalid, though I believe an agreement can be made that arbitration must be tried before a lawsuit is filed. Any attorneys out there willing to comment?

A successful strategy many docs are using is to "go bare"- no malpractice insurance, thus no "target-rich environment". However, some states and many hospitals require a minimum level of malpractice insurance. I heard of one doc that thought he was smart by doubling the level of his coverage over the required minimum. His seasoned collegues cautioned him, but he did it anyway. Guess who became "lawsuit bait"?


13 posted on 10/07/2004 9:48:35 AM PDT by armydoc
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To: A Ruckus of Dogs
Until we accept a certain rate of error, malpractice costs will continue to be make healthcare unaffordable for more and more people.

You're right, and I don't think it'll ever happen (people accepting a certain rate of error).

A large segment of our populace is spoiled and expects painless, deathless, instant results with a zero rate of error (in health care AND in war). And they want it to be free, too -- or at least heavily government-subsidized.

My family was in a position a few years ago to sue the pants off some M.D.s. There was a bad outcome following a medical procedure. Like most malpractice cases, it wasn't gross negligence like a drunken surgeon, but simply a difficult decision to do 'A' instead of 'B.' If 'B' had been done, the result might have been just as bad or worse; but I'm sure a slick lawyer like Edwards could've conjured up a case that 'B' should've been done and everything would've been hunky-dory. And a jury would've been sympathetic. But we didn't second guess, didn't sue. Didn't want to get on the shyster gravy train.

14 posted on 10/07/2004 9:48:39 AM PDT by shhrubbery!
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To: armydoc
A successful strategy many docs are using is to "go bare"- no malpractice insurance, thus no "target-rich environment".

Aren't they putting their personal assets at risk? I would think lawyers would then go after the doctor's savings account, his house, his car, or whatever.

15 posted on 10/07/2004 10:08:10 AM PDT by A Ruckus of Dogs
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To: shhrubbery!
A large segment of our populace is spoiled and expects painless, deathless, instant results with a zero rate of error (in health care AND in war). And they want it to be free, too -- or at least heavily government-subsidized.

Medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the US.

A woman I was in a Bible study with had lumps on the back of her head, went to her doctor and was told, without any tests, that the lumps meant nothing. Over the period of a year, she felt increasingly ill, lost weight and energy while her doctor continued to assure her that nothing was wrong. The last time she went to her doctor, she didn't even have the energy to get dressed, the doctor yelled (literally) that she was crazy and to get out of her office, the woman refused to move until the doctor DID something. Six weeks later, the woman was dead. The lumps were cancer. She left behind a husband and two small children. Spoiled indeed!

16 posted on 10/07/2004 10:11:35 AM PDT by lucysmom
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To: A Ruckus of Dogs
Aren't they putting their personal assets at risk? I would think lawyers would then go after the doctor's savings account, his house, his car, or whatever.

Not when assests are placed in some one else's name.

17 posted on 10/07/2004 10:13:10 AM PDT by lucysmom
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To: lucysmom
Nonsense. I'm not talking about gross negligence, but about disgruntled patients second-guessing difficult decisions made by their doctors.

What you've described would be obvious gross negligence, if true. (And I must say I find it incredible.) There's no doctor in his right mind who wouldn't test those "lumps." If he didn't, and she lost weight, got extremely weak, etc. as you describe, why on earth didn't she go to another doctor?

And don't tell me she didn't see another doctor because her insurance wouldn't pay for it. If you have something that obviously serious threatening your life, you'll pay out of pocket if you have to, and demand your insurance company reimburse you when it's demonstrated you were seriously ill.

18 posted on 10/07/2004 11:30:33 AM PDT by shhrubbery!
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To: thepace
Interesting article
19 posted on 10/07/2004 11:38:10 AM PDT by Fresh Wind (Heinz-Kerry: "The common man doesn't look at me as some rich witch.")
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To: hoosiermama
......Think I'll start going to my vet for myself.

I worked with a guy who had diverticulitis...as it turns out, what the doc prescribed for him was the same stuff the guy's dog took for whatever.

My co-worker called the M.D. and asked him if he could take the dog's meds, since the price through the vet was miniscule.....he got the green light, with a laugh from the doctor.

20 posted on 10/07/2004 11:45:51 AM PDT by ErnBatavia ("Dork"; a 60's term for a 60's kinda guy: JFK)
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