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To: Scenic Sounds
What I have said is that I don't think that most men abstain from raping women because of "ethics and personal standards of behavior." I think most men abstain from raping women because they have no innate desire to engage in nonconsexual sex.

I didn't include that but that's true too.

Obviously, there are some men who do seem to have a desire for nonconsensual sex and there is no foolproof way for women to distinguish such men from the majority of men who (I believe) don't have such desires.

That's true as well but what I'm saying and what I think hopespringseternal was saying isn't about rape or nonconsensual sex per se. Male dominance pervades ALL sexual relations between men and women. It's there whether you use it or not. That creates a psychological dynamic that exists no matter what the individual man is like. It can't be erased even by long term relations with a perfect gentleman. (It could be ignored or a woman could delude herself into believing it doesn't exist of course.) But it remains a possibility that any man could become an aggressor at any time. It would be a rare situation where the man lacked physical and mental superiority in terms of aggression IMO.

205 posted on 10/05/2004 9:43:22 AM PDT by TigersEye ("Where there is life there is hope." - Terri Schiavo)
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To: TigersEye
But it remains a possibility that any man could become an aggressor at any time.

I suppose, but I can readily distinguish between, on the one hand, some aggression and dominance as part of normal consensual sexual activity and, on the other hand, force or compulsion at such a level that we find ourselves talking seriously about our graciously granting to women the power to say no. There remains for me a real difference between consensual and nonconsensual sex, and I really don't think most people desire the latter.

You know, I really do try to not be overly harsh in my judgments of folks who have somehow found themselves stuck with desires that I don't happen to share. I can't read stories about guys who have a thing for little kids or guys who have a thing for animals or guys who have a thing for dead bodies or even guys who have a thing for other guys without my having some feeling of thankfulness that I was lucky enough to not get stuck with that kind of desire, that kind of burden. It can't be easy - not in our world. ;-)

207 posted on 10/05/2004 10:20:48 AM PDT by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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