Posted on 10/03/2004 8:48:31 AM PDT by Mike Fieschko
Wilson and Samuel both had loads of talent, but both could be undisciplined at the plate, if memory serves. I remember when Samuel came up with the Phillies, he was supposed to be The Next Big Thing (I know, lots of players are) and he did in fact have a nice career. But erratic both in the field and at the plate. Wilson seems to be remembered chiefly for two things -- lots of stolen bases and the most strikeouts in a World Series (although I believe Soriano broke that record last year.) I'm too lazy to look it up.
Wayta go Ichiro, you did good!!
Excellent. Reading that page, I was amazed to note that that was Branca's sixth loss of the season to the Giants, and that he had allowed 11 home runs to them. We would not today call that the height of strategery on the part of the manager. Guess they didn't keep those charts back then on how players performed against each other. And as a result, we had ---- THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT --- THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT
When a guy gets 700+ at-bats in a single season, the first thing that crosses my mind is that he hardly ever walks. That's what made Willie Wilson's record so odd; he was a leadoff hitter who didn't walk at all.
As a side note, what made this so idiotic was that until Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa arrived on the scene a few years ago the National League record for home runs in a 154-game season was higher than the record for a 162-game schedule.
September 4, 1991: After 30 years, the asterisk attached to Roger Maris' 61 home runs in 1961 is removed by an 8-man Committee for Statistical Accuracy. Regarding the expunging of the asterisk, historian Bill Deane later points out, "It was an easy job: the asterisk never existed. Maris's record was, from 1962 until 1991, listed separately from Ruth's and was never actually defined by 'some distinctive mark.'" The committee also defines a no-hit game as one which ends after nine or more innings with one team failing to get a hit. This removes 50 games from the list that had previously been considered no-no's, mostly shortened games, but also including Harvey Haddix's 12 perfect innings against the Braves in 1959 and Jim Maloney' 1965 1–0 loss in 11-innings. Another casualty is Ernie Shore's 27 straight outs in 1917, a game in which he relieved Ruth with a runner on and no outs in the 1st. It is now a combined no-hitter.
You could also argue that the quality of the average pitcher today is probably much better than in the 1920's so that batters have a much more dificult time of it.
Yep more than anything else illness and playing in the dead ball era lead to Sisler being underappreciated. He was one of the last great first basemen who was not a power hitter. I guess a modern analog to him might be Mark Grace who does not have a lot of power for a modern first baseman.
Here are the career stats of Sisler and Grace, Grace through the 2003 season:
Player-----AB---R----H----HR-BB---SO---BA---OBP----SLG
Sisler--- 8267--1284--2812--102--472---327--.340--.379--.468
Grace-----8065--1179--2245--173--1074--642--.303--.383--.442
A Grace link:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/4194/
A Sisler link:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sislege01.shtml
Notice reflecting his era, Grace walked and homered a bit more but also struck out a bit more but they are similar in the two most important numbers onbase percentage and slugging percentage. And note Grace played much of his career in a ballpark that existed in Sisler's time.
As someone suggested Sisler missed the 1923 season due to an infection affecting his optic nerve and was never as good after that. Thus his best years were mostly in the dead [or dirty] ball era.
And just for the heck of it let's look at Irchiro's career numbers through 2003:
Player-----AB---R---H--HR-BB--SO---BA---OBP----SLG
Ichiro----2018--349--662--29--134--184--.328--.374--.440
which looks alot like Grace and Sisler. Ichiro's numbers came from:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/suzukic01.shtml
Nice. Although I would note that Sisler struck out an almost impossibly-small amount of the time. I mean, 327 Ks in 8267 ABs - we give someone like Ichiro, and others, credit for striking out 10% of the time. We talk about how rarely Barry Bonds strikes out... when in fact, he's worse than 10% of his ABs this year.
Sisler struck out in fewer than FOUR PERCENT of his career ABs. CAREER. That alone is about as impressive a stat as ever existed. Deadball or otherwise, you still have to make contact, and it appears that Sisler did so, possibly better than anyone in history.
I think the comparison of Sisler to Ichiro is a better one than to Grace. Both make contact, both show excellent speed, neither walks a whole lot. Grace shows a little more power and a LOT better discipline (walks more), but about zero speed. (More doubles for Grace, fewer triples and steals.)
In any case, as much as I've followed baseball my entire life, I've not heard much about Sisler. I would hope that Ichiro's record-breaking performance would bring a little light to the man that quietly held that record for over 80 years.
Good point on the D. Bill James in his Hisorical Abstract, where I looked up the reason Sisler missed that season, said that for a while in the early 1920s Sisler was the second best player in baseball behind Ruth. While they aare good players and apparently a good guys, you have never been able to say that about either Grace nor Ichiro.
Of course we can't say Grace or Ichiro was, like Sisler, the "second best player in baseball behind Ruth" - they never even PLAYED with the Babe. ;-)
That said, who IS the second best player in baseball (behind Bonds)?
Of course we can't say Grace or Ichiro was, like Sisler, the "second best player in baseball behind Ruth" - they never even PLAYED with the Babe. ;-)
That said, who IS the second best player in baseball (behind Bonds)?
Good point on the speed. I just checked and Ichiro in 3 seasons has more than Grace in his long career. A speedy player just is not going to end up at first base in modern baseball I guess.
Interestingly like Ruth, Sisler came up as a left handed pitcher and had a decent era like Ruth's but only pitched 10% as much as Ruth. I did not either know or remember this.
I do not follow MLB as much now since they became so PC, but I would guess it would probably be ARod.
I guess I would have to agree. (It pains me, since I'd just as soon not even acknowledge A-Rod's existence; he plays for That Team and not my Red Sox. ;-) I think Pujols is a better hitter in just about every respect, but A-Rod's defense (he's better at a more difficult position) puts him over the top. Plus, A-Rod's been doing it longer than Pujols...
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