Posted on 10/02/2004 1:54:57 PM PDT by Pitiricus
What do Muslims believe regarding freedom of religious choice? A Koranic verse (2:256) answers: "There is no compulsion in religion"(in Arabic: la ikrah fi'd-din). That sounds clear-cut and the Islamic Center of Southern California insists it is, arguing that it shows how Islam anticipated the principles in the U.S. Constitution. The center sees the First Amendment ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof") as based on concepts in the Koran's nocompulsion verse.
In a similar spirit, a former chief justice of Pakistan, S.A. Rahman, argues that the Koranic phrase contains "a charter of freedom of conscience unparalleled in the religious annals of mankind." To a Western sensibility, this interpretation makes intuitive sense. Thus does Alan Reynolds, an economist at the CATO Institute, write in the Washington Times that the verse signifies the Koran "counsels religious tolerance."
Were it only so simple.
In fact, this deceptively simple phrase historically has had a myriad of meanings. Here are some of them, mostly premodern, deriving from two outstanding recent books, Patricia Crone's "God's Rule: Government and Islam" (Columbia University Press) and Yohanan Friedman's "Tolerance and Coercion in Islam" (Cambridge University Press), augmented by my own research. Proceeding from least liberal to most liberal, the no-compulsion phrase is considered variously to have been:
Abrogated: The passage was overridden by subsequent Koranic verses (such as 9:73 "O Prophet! Struggle against the unbelievers and hypocrites and be harsh with them").
Purely symbolic: The phrase is a description, not an imperative. Islam's truth is so obvious that to coerce someone to become a Muslim does not amount to "compulsion"; or else being made to embrace Islam after defeat in war is not viewed as "compulsion."
Spiritual, not practical: Governments may indeed compel external obedience, though they of course cannot compel how Muslims think.
Limited in time and place: It applied uniquely to Jews in Medina in the seventh century.
Limited to non-Muslims who live under and accept Muslim rule: Some jurists say it applies only to "Peoples of the Book" (Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians); others say it applies to all infidels.
Excludes some non-Muslims: Apostates, women, children, prisoners of war, and others can indeed be compelled. (This is the standard interpretation that has applied in most times and places).
Limited to all non-Muslims: Muslims must abide by the tenets of Islam and may not apostatize.
Limited to Muslims: Muslims may shift from one interpretation of their faith to another (such as from Sunni to Shia), but may not leave Islam.
Applied to all persons: Reaching the true faith must be achieved through trial and testing, and compulsion undercuts this process. Massive disagreement over a short phrase is typical, for believers argue over the contents of all sacred books, not just the Koran. The debate over the no-compulsion verse has several important implications.
First, it shows that Islam - like all religions - is whatever believers make of it. The choices for Muslims range from Taliban-style repression to Balkan-style liberality. There are few limits; and there is no "right" or "wrong" interpretation. Muslims have a nearly clean slate to resolve what "no compulsion" means in the 21st century.
Conversely, nonspecialists should be very cautious about asserting the meaning of the Koran, which is fluid and subjective. When Alan Reynolds wrote that the no-compulsion verse means the Koran "counsels religious tolerance," he intended well but in fact misled his readers.
Further, many other areas of Islam have parallels to this debate. Muslims can decide afresh what jihad signifies, what rights women have, what role government should play, what forms of interest on money should be banned, plus much else. How they resolve these great issues affects the whole world. Finally, although Muslims alone will make these decisions, Westerners can influence their direction. Repressive elements (such as the Saudi regime) can be set back by a reduced dependence on oil. More liberal Muslims (such as the Ataturkists) can be marginalized by letting an Islamist-led Turkey enter the European Union.
What non-Muslims do also has potentially a great impact on whether "no compulsion in religion" translates into religious tolerance or permits (as in the case of Salman Rushdie) a license to kill.
LOL I notice Pipes slate is so clean he never mentions Muhammad's name.
Well he was dead when the Qoran was written... :-)
Islam is more properly called Muhammedanism, since so much of it is about copying the life of the most perfect man, Muhammad. Their words, not mine.
A thief, murderer and child molester... I guess you get the prophets you deserve...
ISLAM IS KILLING US !!!
What did we (in America) learn from September 11, 2001 and the deaths of 3,000 people. I am tempted to admit: Absolutely Nothing !!!
Among the many unlearned lessons of the Day-Which-Will-Live-In-Infamy-II, the necessity to control our borders, the need for a patriotic renewal and the importance of combating multiculturalism -- the most significant is the NATURE of Islam. You will note that I do not say militant Islam, or radical Islam, or Islamic extremism or any other such weasel words but just Islam. Period, end of argument !!!
Every one of the hijackers who flew airliners into the World Trade Center and Pentagon were professing and practicing Muslims, as is Osama bin Laden. The Al Qaeda terrorist network, is based in Muslim countries and supported financially by the so called pious Muslim leadership of Saudi Arabia !!!
The overwhelming majority of Muslim religious authorities who have spoken out on the subject, including those at the main mosque in Mecca and Egypts prestigious Al Azar University, either endorse or rationalize acts of terrorism. On a day when Americans were incinerated or buried under tons of rubble, Muslims from Nigeria to Indonesia, celebrated wildly in the streets !!!
Sept. 11 was just one more chapter in a 1400-year jihad. Every day, the World Trade Center massacre is reenacted on a smaller scale somewhere in the world. Jewish women and children are burned alive in a bus in Israel. A missionary is beheaded in the Philippines, gunmen shoot up a church in Pakistan, deliberately firing into the prostrate bodies of women who were trying to shield their children !!!
Ancient monasteries and convents were destroyed in Kosovo. Women are sentenced to death for adultery in Nigeria, Hindus are murdered in the Kashmir. In Denmark, the Muslim community there has put a $30,000 bounty on the heads of Jews and those who support Israel. Nuns are beheaded in Baghdad, Christians in Sudan are forced into slavery, hundreds of parents and children are murdered in a Russian school, and in Britain, Islam openly states it is going to take over not only the UK, but the entire world -- and the beat goes on, and on, and on !!!
Genocide in the Sudan, ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, religious persecution in Saudi Arabia, calls for another holocaust in mosques from Mecca to Gaza, the imposition of Islamic law in Nigeria, forced conversions in Indonesia, synagogues burned in France, Jews attacked across Europe these are everyday events, as Third World and much of the First slowly turns Islamic green !!!
Sadly our leaders, from President Bush on down, insist on peddling the absolute absurdity that "Islam Is A Religion Of Peace" a creed of kindness and benevolence tragically and inexplicably corrupted by a few misguided fanatics. Bovine Feces, George !!!
Why is the leadership of the West reluctant to confront manifest reality? The reason lies partly with our absurd foreign policy. We have declared certain Muslim nations to be our loyal allies including Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan. Good grief... we surely would NOT want to "offeeeeeennnnnd" these dear and loving friends by saying something unflattering about their bloody, butcher-based, dark ages, moon god murder cult !!!
Americans are naturally benevolent. Most of us are taught from childhood that religion is good (and it does not matter which religion). As long as little Johnny believes in God and goodness, its inconsequential whether he lights candles, wears a skull cap to services or prays in the direction of Mecca !!!
This works with every religion except Islam !!!
Consider the following: Of the three major western religions one was started by a lawgiver who helped to free slaves; one by a man of peace; the last one by a man who loved war and having sex with children. Mohammed not only led men into battle, he enjoyed marrying girls as young as six years old (yes, it's in the Koran) !!!
The essence of Mohammed's message is sick and thoroughly disgusting. A holy war where you slaughter your enemies, while at the same time encouraging followers to have sex with the children they capture (as he did) "for the glory of Allah." He even advised his followers to negotiate false peace treaties in order to lull their enemies, before they suddenly beheaded them !!!
For almost 1,400 years, that has been the reality of Islam. Within a century after the death of Mohammed, Islam spread throughout the Middle East and across North Africa. It overran the Iberian peninsula and was finally stopped in southern France. It spread eastward as far as the southern Philippines. It was not propagated by fresh-faced young men knocking on doors and announcing: Hello. Im from your local mosque. Have you considered the Koran? It was and is spread by force conversion by the sword or death -- and this murder cult method is still in practice today !!!
Some will respond that all religions go through periods of violence, usually in their infancy. Christianity had its crusades and Inquisition, its forced conversions and expulsions. The evil committed in the name of Christ happened centuries ago. But the evil committed in the name of the murder cult prophet is going on right now, even as you read these words !!!
Of 22 conflicts in the Third World, 20 involve Muslims versus someone else. Coincidence? In his brilliant book, "Clash of Cultures and the Remaking of World Order," Samuel Huntington speaks of Islams "bloody borders" therein !!!
There is no Methodist Jihad, no Jewish Hasidic holy warriors, no Buddhist monk wanting to have 72 firm breasted virgins and 12 beautiful young boys waiting for him in Islamic paradise after a suicide bombing, no Hindu Holy men plotting to blow up people and property, no Southern Baptist beheaders, and no Mormon elders preaching the annihilation of members of other faiths !!!
Islam is a religion of war and warriors the perfect vessel for fanatics, the violence-prone, the envious and the haters of all stripes. This is the main reason why Islam is making so many converts among the formerly peaceable denizens of our prison system !!!
Still, much of the West is addicted to a fairy-tale version of Islam. Christian and Jewish clergy fall all over themselves to have interfaith services with imams. Representatives of Muslim groups are invited to the White House. The president signs a Ramadan declaration. In California, public schools ask children to role-play at being Muslims. Our universities take CAREFULLY SELECTED verses from the Koran and present them as the essence of the faith. All thats needed is a Muslim character on Sesame Street. Look its the Jihad Monster !!!
This perspective engenders a fatally false sense of security. Imagine, in 1940, Winston Churchill taking to the airwaves to announce Nazism is an ideology of peace which, regrettably, has been perverted by a few fanatics like Hitler and Goebbels. But most storm troopers and SS men are fine fellows your friends and neighbors. Yeah... sure !!!
For the first thousand years of its history from the death of Mohammad to the 17th. century decline of the Ottoman empire, Islam was an expansionist force. For the next 300 years, as the West rose to preeminence, Islam receded. For the past four decades fueled by Arab oil wealth, a surplus population in the Middle East, the waning of the West and the rise of more virulent strains of the faith (Shiism, Wahhabism, Sunni fundamentalism) Islam is expanding once more !!!
Due to Muslim immigration and aggressive proselytizing, Islam is being exported to the West. Muslim populations are burgeoning throughout Western Europe. (In southern France, there are more mosques than churches.) In Judeo-Christian America, Islam is the fastest growing religion. It is also spreading down the coast of West Africa, through the Balkans (after Serbia, Macedonia is the next target) and up from Mindanao in the Philippines !!!
Wherever it comes, Islam brings its delightful customs child marriages, female circumcisions, rabid hatred toward Christians, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists and every other non-muslim, terrorism and support for terrorism and a virulent intolerance of other faiths as it invades the local population !!!
We currently see this happening... right now... today,,, in Hamtramk, Michigan... where the ignorant city councel has purposely given Muslims permission to pollute the entire city with high-powered loud speaker screechings from the top of their mosques, from morning to night, six times a day, seven days a week, as they scream Muslim chants to glorify their pagan moon god Allah, and his child molesting, head chopping prophet, Mohammud. And the ACLU backs them 100%, threatening to sue anyone who dares to complain !!!
Yes, yes... the ACLU... the American Civil Liberties Union... but in reality it's the Arabic Communist Lucifer Union, championing their "cleave unto" plan of action against Judeo-Christian America. And then they further defend it by saying... "Hey, it's no different then when you disgustingly filthy, pig fat polluted, less than human Infidels ring your damned evil church bells on Sunday morning." !!!
So am I suggesting we declare war on over 1 billion million Muslims? The question is moot Islam has declared war on the rest of the human race. When one side knows its at war and the other thinks peace and brotherhood prevail, guess who wins???
Ultimately, it is not about Jews in Israel, or Orthodox Serbs in Kosovo, or Hindus in Kashmir, Buddhists in Thailand, or Maronite Catholics in Lebanon, Taoists in China, or Christians in Sudan, Nigeria and Russia... but ALL OF US. As Ben Franklin would have it Either we will "hang" together, or surely we shall all "hang" separately (swap "be beheaded" for "hang" to properly update Mr. Franklin) !!!
Hey... have you loved a Muzzle-em today ???
USA has not even specifically identified the enemy, so no wonder we can not win this war, and we will not until we identify it, and start to fight it everywhere. We need to stop playing a fool.
My sentiments with most of what you had to say. But I don't buy the notion that GWB really buys into the thought that the cult of Islam is peace loving. He has to be very carefull as to what he conveys in public......Imagine the field day the MSM and other far left organs would have if he did not appear to want to go along with the program.
But I don't buy the notion that GWB really buys into the thought that the cult of Islam is peace loving.
So what you are saying is that GWB should have never mentioned the word Islam in any context after 9-11?
Or that he should condemed every person that practices any of the dozen or so versions of Islam to death on national TV, etc..?
"Islam is more properly called Muhammedanism..."
But what is the enlish transliteral meaning of Islam?
Answer: One who submits. Extended: to Allah.
", he enjoyed marrying girls as young as six years old (yes, it's in the Koran) !!! "
Can you please point out which sara in the Koran makes mention of this fact? I think you are a bit confused.
There are references in the Haddith about the age of consent being I believe 13 which what was also the case in the Hebrew religion.
I would be interested to read verses in the Koran which indicated how young a bride can be.
Most important thing any Muslim is to copy the life of Muhammad. To emulate the Muhammad's perfect life. Koran and Hadith are full of examples from Muhammad's life that the faithful Muslim is supposed to emulate. This is why I call this cult Muhammadanism, which was it's more common name 100 years ago.
It's a form of idol worship of Muhammad. Allah is invented to make Muhammad more powerful. As if he has an older brother who will beat you up.
Muhammad married Aisha at 6 and boinked (raped) her at 9. Check it out on google.
No problem. But the translation means what I said.
And I agree with your statement that Mahummadism was a commonly used phrase in particular some early British British historians and theogian types used.
I can't say my learnings about Islam would conclude your description of who Allah is. Let us please remember that almost 2600 years before Mahammad was born, the twelve tribes of Arabia who came from either Ismael and or the six sons born to Keturah by Abraham all knew of Yawah. Allah in Arab means "Illustrious One......God...." etc.
So I cannot accept your blanket statement but do not want to cause and argument that may lead no where.
OK So all can see.............Draw your own conclusions.After doing some thourough research..............
daughter of Abu Bakr and third wife of Muhammad. According to the ahadith in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, and numerous other reports, she married Muhammad at the age of 6 when Muhammad was 53, and they consummated their marriage when she was at the age of 9.
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). (Sahih Bukhari 7.88)
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) (Sahih Bukhari 8.151)
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' Then you were shown to me, the angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said (to him), 'Uncover (her), and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' " (Sahih Bukhari 9.140)
Some Muslims claimed that Muhammad did not initiate the marriage with Aisha, but that Abu Bakr, after Aisha was spunned by a prospector and was not able to find another man to marry her, approached Muhammad to marry here. However, the following hadith clearly showed that it was Muhammad who was the initiator and Abu Bakr was even shocked at that suggestion.
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry." (Sahih Bukhari 7.18)
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. (Sahih Bukhari 5.236. see also Sahih Bukhari 7.64, Sahih Bukhari 7.65)
Let me put it this way. Few freepers believe Allah is the same God as the God of the Jews and the Christians. I don't believe it myself. Allah is an Arabian creation that was in the pre-Islamic Arab pantheon of gods. Muhammad promoted him to the only God.
Thanks for the info. I will look into what you say.
But for the record, I agree with the fact Arabs do not worship or think of the creator as Christian and Jews do.
Satan made sure they would stay pretty much ignorant so that they are easily used.......
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