[Jim Noble]

Look how you've now portrayed the difference: under our system, hospitals "can go out of business", under socialism, they can't. Which do you think sounds better to the average joe?

I don't care that your "average joe" likes stealing.

It's still wrong.

[Dr. Frank fan]

I don't care that your "average joe" likes stealing. It's still wrong.

I agree, but that doesn't work as an argument in favor of the status quo.

The status quo already involves a large amount of what you and I both agree is morally equivalent to stealing. A lefty's going to say "we're *already* doing socialism, just not *well*". Which is true on both counts.

[k2blader]

Unfortunately, too many "conservatives" operate under that slippery "the ends justify the means" philosophy when it comes to the subject of social welfare programs.