Lennon fans threaten his killer as release looms

Guardian ^ | 09/26/04 | Guardian

[Pikamax]

Lennon fans threaten his killer as release looms

Paul Harris in New York Sunday September 26, 2004 The Observer

Mark Chapman, the man who murdered John Lennon, could be released from jail next month in a move that has sparked fears of retribution from Beatles fans. Chapman will have a parole hearing in the week beginning 4 October, officials at the New York State Parole Division said. It will be held behind closed doors. However, one official said they had 'no idea' what the outcome of the hearing would be.

But if Chapman is released after 24 years in prison, some Lennon fans have already threatened to take action. News of the parole hearing has spread on the internet and dozens of websites have been filling up with messages from fans around the world, many already promising to take revenge on the man who gunned down Lennon on 8 December 1980 as he arrived at his New York apartment building off Central Park.

'Chapman should be executed. I would gladly get rid of him myself,' wrote a fan from Finland on one website. Another fan has already set up an online petition to have Chapman's parole denied. It is already full of messages that show Chapman's safety outside jail would be difficult to maintain. 'If Mark David Chapman is let out of jail, he wouldn't last a day. There are too many people who want him dead,' wrote a New York-based female fan.

Any security conditions for protecting Chapman if he is released will be down to the New York State Parole Board. 'It is up to them. It is nothing to do with the police,' said a spokesman for the New York Police Department.

New York is used to handling such releases. Recently Joel Steinberg, jailed for 17 years after the violent death of his six-year-old daughter, was released from jail in a move that shocked New York and generated huge media interest. Steinberg faced numerous death threats from the public but still travelled back to the city from jail in a white limousine trailed by a pack of journalists. He has since been living in a charity-run halfway house in New York and reportedly considering a career in television.

However, other recent attempts by high-profile prisoners to get parole have failed. In August a California prison board refused to parole Leslie Van Houten for the 15th time. Van Houten was a disciple of notorious 1960s killer Charles Manson and was convicted for her role in cult murders carried out by Manson's 'Family'. Van Houten, now 55 was rejected in her bid for parole despite having been a long-term model prisoner and making a tearful apology for her part in the grisly 1969 crimes.

Chapman has had two previous requests for parole, in 2000 and 2002, denied. In 2000 he outraged Lennon fans by saying he believed his victim would want him to be freed. 'I think he would be liberal, I think he would care,' he said.

He was originally sentenced to at least 20 years in prison. Lennon's widow, Yoko Ono, has supported keeping Chapman in prison out of a fear for her own safety and that of their child Sean and Lennon's other son Julian.

[clyde asbury]

I'm not picking a fight. I'm asking you to defend a long account of tin foil hat speculations. I do disagree with them. I understand you aren't the author, but the comment has your name on it, so I address my responses to you. "Just for consideration," yes, but also "controversial."

If you aren't willing to debate this, to reason about these speculations, then it's difficult to understand why you include them. You seem to back away from them as soon as they are mentioned. Why are they here, then?

I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but from what I've seen all kinds of posts and comments are welcome on FR. Speculation does not go unchallenged, however. Nor do typos. :)) The debate can be fierce, but true FReeps stay on the thread and get personal only by way of being friendly.

My opinion only, of course, but the following could have been written to describe FReepers (you'll like the first part especially):

The average [FReeper] respects the truth over being "right." Withdraw your erroneous comment and admit your mistake and they will see you as a very reasonable person. Stick to erroneous comments and they will think you are an irrational idiot and treat everything you say as being questionable. Try not to be repetitive. It annoys them. Do not feed them a line of bull. Expect debate. [FReeper]s like to tear ideas apart and prove their worthiness. They will even argue a point they don't actually support for the sake of argument. Do not mistake the strength of your conviction with the strength of your argument. [FReeper]s do not need to believe in a position to argue it or argue it well. Therefore, it will take more than fervor to sway them. Do not be surprised at sarcasm.

I like it here.

[Brainhose]

[beyond the sea]

If you aren't willing to debate this, to reason about these speculations, then it's difficult to understand why you include them. You seem to back away from them as soon as they are mentioned.

I'll try once again to make it less difficult for you to understand.

Initially, by posting that material, I was simply attempting to see what others thought about those CIA/YMCA/Chapman/Lennon speculations. That's all.

But since you persist in suggesting that I'm "unwilling to debate this", I will say a few things on it (although work is calling). I was 'Army Security Agency' back in the late 60's - early 70's, and had and have become somewhat aware of the intelligence community. I had heard some things about the effort of our government to use the YMCA's over the world for purposes other than to give a guy a place to sleep. (By the way, I am a believer that sometimes it is necessary for the "good" guys to do "bad" things.) If these YMCA's at times were used as "indoctrination stations" or whatever, so be it.

There is much information out there indicating that they were being used for those reasons and others. Many young men, alienated from their families and roots, traveling the world are vulnerable to an "education" in this venue.

I must go work soon, but again, initially I was trying to see if others were aware of these goings on. Knowing that FR provides a great number of people wiser and better informed than me on certain issues, I was awaiting some other speculation............... NOT an argument or a debate.

;-)

[beyond the sea]

One more thing, c.a.

If our government had a hand in John's death I just wanted to know what paranoid fools in the government I should disdain.

The harassment started with Nixon and Hoover (Lennon's FBI files are said to weigh 27 pounds), I just hope it didn't continue with Bush Sr. and Reagan. If it did continue, I could see why so many on the left hate Republican leadership.

For now, I'm going on the supposition that the unbalanced Chapman did it on his own. But I'll keep an open mind. (After all, if people can believe that Oswald was the lone killer, I guess we could all believe that Chapman was not inspired by anyone.)

[clyde asbury]

I will say a few things on it ...

Well, OK. Now we're talking. Interesting. As for our discussion, tho, I will only note that what I misunderstood has changed, according to you. But I don't want to debate about that! Consideration purposes only.

Initially, by posting that material, I was simply attempting to see what others thought about those CIA/YMCA/Chapman/Lennon speculations. That's all.

Remind me later to tell you what I think about that material. :)

For now, I'm going on the supposition that the unbalanced Chapman did it on his own. But I'll keep an open mind.

Seriously, it's certainly possible. Jodie Foster played a convincing government agent in Silence of the Lambs, after all.

[Tijeras_Slim]

If he'd popped Yoko too, he'd be in the music hall of fame.

[beyond the sea]

Initially, by posting that material, I was simply attempting to see what others thought about those CIA/YMCA/Chapman/Lennon speculations. That's all. ............. Remind me later to tell you what I think about that material. :)

For all I know that CIA/YMCA/Chapman?Lennon speculative material may have about as much veracity as the looney theory that an airplane didn't hit the Pentagon. Right! ;-)

I just know Nixon hated Lennon and viewd him as a threat, and he passed alot of that hatred around.

As far as that source is concerned, the writer is a way-out hater of all things "right". But every once in a while they get something right. But, most likely not this time either.

Take it easy!

[BaBaStooey]

Something tells me Yoko will spend some money to get a message out to these people.....

You know, a giant, pretentious, unintelligible message, when translated into plain English would be something like "don't kill this dude"

Something like a giant billboard of a single plum, floating in some perfume in a man's hat, with some giant speakers playing primal scream music.

Of course, everyone will get that message right away and no one will hurt the guy (yeah right)

[BaBaStooey]

"Instant karma's gonna get you" - John Lennon

[clyde asbury]

Hey, I've been taking it easy. But debate can still be heated. That's when it's the most fun.

Nixon hated Lennon and viewd him as a threat

Yes, I have heard of US intelligence agencies following him, considering revoking his passport, etc.

[clyde asbury]

Nice volleying with you, bey.

[beyond the sea]

LOL.

[beyond the sea]

Remember her silly thing back when John met her where John had to climb a ladder to see something up near the ceiling somewhere.

Yoko is one strange woman. But, he loved her.

[beyond the sea]

"I won't say ours was a tough school, but we had our own coroner. We used to write essays like: What I'm going to be if I grow up."

*******

Lenny Bruce

[clyde asbury]

LOL :)

[BaBaStooey]

I remember that story. It was a stepladder with something written very small on the ceiling. You had to climb the ladder, grab the magnifying glass that was dangling there, and then look up at what was written on the ceiling.

John hadnt met Yoko at that point, he got on the ladder and looked up with the magnifying glass, and written on the ceiling was the word "yes."

John thought that was nice and positive, so he stuck around to check out the rest of the exhibit, and met Yoko. He later said that if the ceiling had said "no" he might have just split the scene, and may have never met Yoko.

[Legion04]

umm...
the part that I just don't get is:

Lennon KILLER......RELEASE looms.

Where does being a killer allow one to be released from prison, let alone be alive to begin with!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Something VERY VERY wrong with that picture!

[beyond the sea]

Damn! I thought you might remember!!!! Your rendition of that event sounds PERFECT!

'Across The Universe'

Words are flowing out like endless rain into a paper cup,

They slither while they pass, they slip away Across the Universe.

Pools of sorrow, waves of joy are drifting through my opened mind,

Possessing and caressing me.

Jai Guru Deva Om

Nothing's gonna change my world, Nothing's gonna change my world.

Nothing's gonna change my world, Nothing's gonna change my world.

Images of broken light which dance before me like a million eyes,

They call me on and on Across the Universe.

Thoughts meander like a restless wind inside a letter box,

They tumble blindly as they make their way Across the Universe

**********

Thanks for replying!

[js1138]

Beat me to it.

[Casaubon]

maybe they can just "imagine" killing him