This reminds me of these moron teen goths sitting around defining "true goth" all the time. How self serving and juvenile.
Do you ever actually debate a topic? Or is it just more fun to pop in with what you believe to be wry one-liners? I did a search on your moniker, and sure enough, that seems to be your M.O. I hope you will understand when I say that I certainly can't take anything you say seriously and I suspect not may others will either. I don't mind a discussion at all, but I won't even waste my time with someone who thinks debate and stand-up comedy are the same thing.
I do, however, think it is highly ironic that you would label this discussion juvenile. Have a lovely day.