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To: rintense

There have been 200,000 civilian deaths in Chechnya, and yes...I am taking the Chechen's side on this.

I didn't say that I am either taking the side of the Chechen terrorists, nor that I am condoning the attacks on Beslan.

The fact remains that there have been as many as 200,000 civilian deaths in Chechnya as a result of Russia, and approximately 40,000 children are among the dead, and if sides have to be taken on that, I will take the side who are suffering such staggering losses at the hands of the Russian Army.

However, that's not what I've been concerned with lately.

What I've been reporting on, is the fact that Putin has seized this opportunity to destroy the last vestiges of democracy in Russia, and that the men responsible for that democracy...including the man who fought the first Chechen war, are also taking a stand against Putin.

Are you siding with Putin in his returning Russia to a totalitarian form of government?


8 posted on 09/16/2004 1:52:13 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

There are a couple of separate issues here that interest me.

I am interested in Russia having a government strong enough to control their extensive nuclear, biological, and chemical weapon stockpiles. The previous post-gorbachev government has apparently not been successful in this. I think that in terms of the interests of the United States, it is paramount that no more of the former soviet NBC stockpiles disappear. If it takes an autocratic regime to see to this, then that is what it takes.

In human terms I assume it is unfortunate for russians in general in terms of political freedom. Unlike venezuela, where I have at least experience in other S/C American countries to let me compare what is going on there and have some basis for judgement, I really have no idea how much things have changed in russia. All I know is what our media tells me, which is undoubtably fed through some very thick colored glass. If soviet weapons sold on the black market are eventually used against russian cities, though, then the eventual price of a weak, non-centralized political system may be much higher than the media pundits appreciate. Insomuch as the US has vested interests in the outcome (and it certainly does,), I don't see how a strong Russian regime is not in our stragetic interests. It may very well be against american economic interests, however.

There are persistent rumors of russian weapons, plutonium, etc., being found in the black market. I want whatever kind of government in moscow it takes to stop that, once and for all. If it takes secret police to scare the devil out of the people in a position to sell those materials, then that is what it takes. Given the money that can (and presumably is) being offered to the caretakers of those facilities, that may be what it takes to dissuade them. If one of our cities is nuked, it is certainly possible that it will turn out to be russian-processed plutonium that was used in the bomb.


29 posted on 09/16/2004 3:56:53 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: Luis Gonzalez; rintense; wagglebee; Will_Zurmacht; dfwgator; WoofDog123
rintense -- "So are you taking the Chechen's side here?"
Luis Gonzalez -- There have been 200,000 civilian deaths in Chechnya, and yes...I am taking the Chechen's side on this.
I didn't say that I am either taking the side of the Chechen terrorists, nor that I am condoning the attacks on Beslan.
The fact remains that there have been as many as 200,000 civilian deaths in Chechnya as a result of Russia, and approximately 40,000 children are among the dead, and if sides have to be taken on that, I will take the side who are suffering such staggering losses at the hands of the Russian Army ..."
**********************************
I hope what I've read was an exaggeration; I read that Chechnya had 2 million citizens when Russia first invaded, and now that number is closer to 800 thousand.

That means 1 million 200 thousand dead, more than half of the population, and that doesn't count the wounded Chechnyans.

44 posted on 09/16/2004 7:10:55 PM PDT by exodus
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