Mikhail Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin Speak out Against Putin’s Reforms

mosnews.com ^ | 9/16/2004 | Staff

[Luis Gonzalez]

Soviet Union’s last president Mikhail Gorbachev and Russia’s first president Boris Yeltsin expressed criticism regarding Vladimir Putin’s proposed reforms in Russian electoral system. Statements by Yeltsin and Gorbachev were made in exclusive interviews to Moskovskie Novosti (The Moscow News) weekly, and will be published in that newspaper’s Friday issue. MosNews, which is a partner publication of Moskovskie Novosti, posted full translation of both statements on our website on Thursday.

Our common goal is to do everything possible to make sure that bills, which, in essence, mean a step back from democracy, don’t come into force as law. I hope that the politicians, voters, and the president himself keep the democratic freedoms that were so hard to obtain, — reads Mikhail Gorbachev’s statement. Soviet Union’s last president, who ruled the country from 1985 to 1992, is convinced that Russian authorities “must search for political solutions, negotiate with the middle-of-the-road militants, separating them from the unappeasable extremists”.

His successor Boris Yeltsin, whose second presidential term ended on December 31, 1999, with a surprise announcement of his voluntary resignation (Vladimir Putin was named acting president three months before actually getting elected in March 2000), calls on the Kremlin to refrain from undermining the existing constitutional framework, despite the necessity of fighting terrorist threats.

I firmly believe that the measures that the country’s leadership will undertake after Beslan will remain within the framework of democratic freedoms that have become Russia’s most valuable achievement over the past decade. We will not give up on the letter of the law, and most importantly, the spirit of the Constitution our country had voted for at the public referendum in 1993. If only because the stifling of freedom and the curtailing of democratic rights is a victory by the terrorists. Only a democratic country can successfully resist terrorism and count on standing shoulder to shoulder with all of the world’s civilized countries, — Yeltsin says in his statement.

Boris Yeltsin’s statement is viewed as a surprise move by many observers in Moscow. Unlike Mikhail Gorbachev, who is still active on Russian political scene, Yeltsin chose to refrain from public comments about Vladimir Putin’s politics ever since his retirement. Recently Boris Berezovsky, an exiled tycoon, renowned for his criticisms of Kremlin and Putin, published an open letter to Russia’s first president, urging Yeltsin to speak up and reminding him of his responsibility for the establishment of Russian constitutional democracy. Yeltsin makes no mention of Berezovsky’s call in his statement, but some observers tend to link his decision to break silence with the exiled oligarch’s request.

[MarMema]

Nazi fits, wear it.

Try posting that to all the freepers here who post pics of Medina being nuked, and posted muich stronger sentiments than ours on those Beslan threads, whose links I posted to Stone Fury last night.

Did you post on those threads, by any chance?

[Luis Gonzalez]

He advocates genocide, so do you.

Nazis committed genocide so, if the show fits, wear it.

[Luis Gonzalez]

When I saw them, I posted, and made the same comments.

In their defense, they advocated nuking a structure, you advocate wiping an entire nation and her people off the face of the Earth.

You advocate genocide...you are comparable to a Nazi.

If the shoe fits...

[Luis Gonzalez]

"The Nazis collaborated with the Chechens to oppose the Soviets."

On 23 August, 1939, the world was shocked when, suddenly, Russia and Germany signed a Non-aggression Pact. People would have been even more shocked if they had known at the time that, in addition, the two countries had a secret agreement to invade and divide Poland between them.

[Luis Gonzalez]

The Russians set up nuclear warheads aimed at our cities ninety miles off our shores...you defend them.

[MarMema]

along with their nation razed from the Earth to avenge the actions of terrorists in Beslan.

I can tell you quite honestly that this is not my viewpoint at all. My viewpoint is more like the post I put up here today. The chechen terrorists are inhuman, and my concern is for the future of the world and my children.

The Pali terrorists are just as sick and deserving of being removed from this planet. Standing next to a stroller and blowing yourself up qualifies for immediate loss of a claim to humanity, imo.

And, like most freepers, I see no kumbaya discussion that will achieve anything with these kinds of evil demons. It is better to simply eliminate them from the planet so the rest of the world is no longer tortured and killed by them.

Finally, unlike you, I am in good company here.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Molotov Ribbentrop Treaty

On August 23, 1939 Hitler and Stalin signed a non-agression pact, called the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty. Secret protocols of the treaty defined the territorial spheres of influence Germany and Russia would have after a successful invasion of Poland. Hitler had been creating justifications and laying plans for such an invasion since April.

According to the agreement, Russia would have control over Latvia, Estonia, and Finland, while Germany would gain control over Lithuania and Danzig. Poland would be partitioned into three major areas. The Warthland area, bordering Germany would be annexed outright to the German Reich, and all non-German inhabitants expelled to the east. Over 77,000 square miles of eastern Polish lands, with a population of over thirteen million would become Russian territory. The central area would become a German protectorate, named the General Gouvernement, governed by a German civil authority.

On September 1,1939 Hitler's forces invaded Poland from the west. According to plan, Soviet troops invaded Polish territory from the east on September 17. Poland surrendered on September 27. The next day Poland was partitioned according to the treaty's scheme, ending a brief twenty year period as an independent nation.

[going hot]

Re you reference to 200,000 killed and 40,000 children. No disrespect, could you point me to a summary of this timeline? ie, when these 200,000 were killed, and the 40,000 children? Inclusive dates...much appreciated

[MarMema]

and there are hundreds of millions of Muslims in the world who have never committed an act of terror

Right. And unfortunately, a large number of them work in fundraising or teaching, or just supporting terrorism in other ways - editing snuff films, perhaps. There are some innocents to be sure, but not in the huge numbers you seem to be claiming.

I live in terrorist heaven and I have talked with muslims here.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"I can tell you quite honestly that this is not my viewpoint at all."

To: StoneFury

"but *I* am going to sit back and watch the fireworks as Putin flattens Chechnya."

I will bring the popcorn. -- Posted by MarMema

To: FreeReign

Now tell me why should Chechnya be flattened if 75% of the country voted for the Putin guy, Alkaholicov?

Because it is a portal to Hades.

189 posted on 09/17/2004 1:52:31 AM EDT by MarMema

Honesty is not your suit, is it?

[MarMema]

Now tell me why should Chechnya be flattened if 75% of the country voted for the Putin guy, Alkaholicov?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Provide proof to your allegations.

[MarMema]

I don't have to provide proof. Just watch Cair websites for their official statements.

Do some reading. Like the thread I posted today, which I thought I had pinged you to.

[NeoCaveman]

Hey Gorby, when Putin slaughters 13 people in Vilnius like your thugs did, then you can talk.

Gorby was/is a thug with good PR.

[MarMema]

Front page

"In September of 2001, just following the worst terrorist attack ever suffered in modern history, CAIR placed on its website, under a picture of the World Trade Center in flames, a plea for donations. It read, “Donate to the NY/DC Emergency Relief Fund.”

Yet, when people clicked on the link, it did not take them to any NY/DC Emergency Relief Fund. No, it took them straight to the website of the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, an Islamic ‘charity’ that was soon to be shut down by the United States for “raising millions of dollars annually for HAMAS.”

What do you call this? I call it fundraising.

[MarMema]

Actually, Joe Kaufman is excellent. You should read everything he has written. He is a brilliant man.

"...found in the March 2002 edition of the MAS’s The American Muslim, calls suicide bombing against Israelis “justifiable.” The piece, entitled “Questions About Palestine,” states, “Martyr operations are not suicide and should not be deemed as unjustifiable means of endangering one’s life…In martyr operations, the Muslim sacrifices his own life for the Sake of performing a religious duty, which is Jihad against the enemy…martyr operations are totally different from the forbidden suicide.”

And an article in the July 4, 2003, edition of The American Muslim, entitled “Reaching the Roots of Terrorism,” justified terrorist attacks, including suicide bombings, as “a reaction to injustice.”

Propoganda and support. I personally met with some muslims at the Puyallup fair several years ago. I was rather naive, as you seem to be, at the time.

But these muslims at their Islam Information Booth, told me that the Jews committed our 9-11 acts of terror, that everything you see on TV is being fed to us by Jews and all lies, and that only they knew what was really going on.

They looked and acted perfectly normal until they said all this stuff. I have no doubt they were involved in support of terrorism in this country. We have had several arrests here of islamic radicals.

But you spend time worrying about Putin and the return of the USSR, even though Christianity is flourishing and Putin supports it completely. Either you are very naive and don't understand that we are facing a second Ottoman Empire, or you are with them and trying to divert attention from it - in the latter case, good luck. LOL, you may as well forget it.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Once again, as you're doing in Chechnya, you paint the whole of the billion Muslims in the world with a broad brush dipped in the paint of the worst of them.

I will bet you dollars to donuts that you won't find many Muslims outside the US who have a clue as to what CAIR stands for.

[MarMema]

Here is Joe's homepage. I love his writings. So, who are these people? Fund raisers.

"Florida Atlantic Terror University

On April 21, 2001, the MSO had its second annual Scholars’ Night, an affair the MSO touted as featuring “several scholars, heroes and heroines.” Of this event, Hamza declared, “Let us build in solidarity a world of peace and harmony; a world of humanity!”

One of the speakers representing that “peace, harmony and humanity” was the Vice Chairman of the Islamic Assembly of North America (IANA) Rafil Dhafir, a man that now sits behind bars for raising money for terrorist organizations in the guise of an Iraqi children’s charity called ‘Help the Needy.’ [On November 16, 2002, Dhafir was also a featured speaker at a fundraiser for the ICBR.] He is quoted as saying, “The United States and England are vicious in their war with Iraq.”

In a lecture entitled ‘Dealing with Non-Muslims,’ Dhafir unequivocally states that “Muslims must not befriend Jews and Christians.” In addition, Dhafir has said, “Islam has permitted female circumcision… and none has the right to forbid that what Allah, the Creator, has permitted.” He claimed that those that call female circumcision “a form of genital mutilation” are practicing “misinformation.”

[MarMema]

If there are so few of them involved in terrorism, how come we are still fighting them and losing so many lives to them?
How do they raise 50 million yearly for their terrorist work?
On the stock market? I don't think so.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"If there are so few of them involved in terrorism, how come we are still fighting them and losing so many lives to them?"

You're just not all that smart, are you?

It took eleven of them to kill thousands on 9/11, and less than three dozen to kill over 300 in Beslan.

There are close to one billion Muslims in the world, and some estimate as many as ten million in the U.S.; so if they're all terrorists, why isn't there blood in the streets of America every day?

"How do they raise 50 million yearly for their terrorist work?"

You think $50 million is a lot of money?

You're very provincial, aren't you?

Fifty million dollars is chump change to Usama bin Laden and the Wahabbis.

"I don't think so."

You could have stopped after the third word.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"I don't have to provide proof."

That's right, in your world the accusations themselves are sufficient proof for a guilty veredict...how very Soviet/KGB of you.

No wonder you love them.