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CBS Forensic Document Examiner: James J. Pierce (let's analyze this)
CBS News (source URL is a PDF file) ^ | 9/15/04

Posted on 09/15/2004 9:23:40 PM PDT by Cableguy

Some highlights from the PDF file:

Date is 9/14 [why is it yesterday instead of last week?]

Key Text (only 3 paragraphs appear):

"the balance of the Jerry B. Killian signatures appearing on the photocopied questioned documents are consistent and in basic agreement" [but are they same as the real military documents?]

"the same typed-face designs are strongly similar to corresponding samples that indicates the same type-face existed prior to the date in question on the photocopied documents" [this does not prove anything]

After that, this 'expert' concludes that the documents are 'authentic'. How can you make that conclusion based on these 2 paragraphs? Sounds like this 'expert' spent 10 minutes looking at the document and the signature.

CBS is in big trouble for relying this guy. No wonder they won't let him appear for interviews.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: cbs; cbsnews; jamesjpierce; killian; rather
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1 posted on 09/15/2004 9:23:41 PM PDT by Cableguy
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To: Cableguy

The crumple marks on the forged documents came from being stuffed down Sandy's pants!


2 posted on 09/15/2004 9:25:22 PM PDT by vger (asta la vista earthlinks!)
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To: Cableguy

1) The typeface in the CBS docs looks NOTHING like hundreds of pages of previously released documents. Not ONE of those documents uses that font.

2) The CBS docs' superscript--which is totally different from teh superscript on the legit docs--looks exactly like MS Word.

3) THe signatures on the real docs are significantly different from those on the CBS docs. For example, look at how the CBS docs have the top of the "K"s curling inward. Killian's REAL signature, when it curls, curls outward. On top of that, there are other obvious differences.


3 posted on 09/15/2004 9:29:42 PM PDT by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: vger
The crumple marks on the forged documents came from being stuffed down Sandy's pants!

i know i put the documents into Photoshop and filtered them extensively, sure that I would find skid marks to no avail... I think we can conclude that Sandy Berger is either not involved or he must wipe well...

4 posted on 09/15/2004 9:30:31 PM PDT by FesterUSMC
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To: Cableguy

"It's the serious of the charge". Not that it is a shoddy crimminal product of MSM. Sounds RAT to me.


5 posted on 09/15/2004 9:32:47 PM PDT by Waco
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To: Cableguy
"Yes, I can testify that these are genuine, legitimate copies. Whether they are genuine, legitimate exact copies of a genuine, legitimate original soucce document is something I am unable to confirm."
6 posted on 09/15/2004 9:33:35 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Psalm 73)
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To: Cableguy

Googling this guy yields no useful results, which is strange for a document expert. Also, he is not listed on the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners website. Perhaps Mr. Pierce is a Xerox copier repairman (which would make him an expert on documents, according to CBS).


7 posted on 09/15/2004 9:36:18 PM PDT by bootyist-monk (<--------------------- Republican Attack Machine)
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To: Cableguy

CBS is either lying about what Pierce told them, tricked Pierce by showing him something different than what they claim they showed him or actually got Pierce to lie for them. It's got to be one of these three.


8 posted on 09/15/2004 9:38:22 PM PDT by Bonaparte (and guess who sighs his lullabies, to nights that never end...)
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To: Cableguy
Does CBS think we're IDIOTs ????

This document is WORTHLESS. There is nothing legal about this "statement". It's the same as if you, Joe Blow, just wrote the same stuff. It's not legally executed, there's no official or accompanying certifications. It's WORTHLESS. That combined with the date AFTER THE FACT again leads to the concern they never had any authentication PRIOR to the 60 Minutes broadcast.

The only thing this is good for is another "whereas ..." clause in my revised complaint to the FCC that I'm filing to request the license of my local affiliate be rescinded. This is beyond serious fraud at this point IMO. They think the public merely a bunch of idiots!

9 posted on 09/15/2004 9:55:16 PM PDT by Steven W.
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To: Steven W.
"Does CBS think we're IDIOTs ????"

That's the major point to this affair. They do.

10 posted on 09/15/2004 9:59:10 PM PDT by blackbart.223
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To: blackbart.223
Well they (my local affiliate and CBS) just got another whereas ...

Whereas a document made publicly available on 9/15/04 by CBS http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/pierce1.pdf attributes a “Professional Opinion” to “James J. Pierce” as dated 9/14/04 without any accompanying legally binding verbiage nor any other official accompanying notarization, verification nor certification of any kind, in which said James J. Piece alleges, “…with what I know and have examined based on the photocopied questioned documents, the documents in question are authentic”;

11 posted on 09/15/2004 10:05:44 PM PDT by Steven W.
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To: Steven W.

CBS is very low in the ratings and I think this will put them down the drain. They could put this to rest by providing the original documents and submit them to exanination. They choose to drink Kool Aid instead.


12 posted on 09/15/2004 10:16:35 PM PDT by blackbart.223
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To: Cableguy
It is my opinion, based on the available evidence, that the balance of the Jerry B. Killian signatures appearing on the photocopied questioned documents are consistent and in basic agreement.

He has essentially only proven that the same person forged all of the documents? What a joke. He didn't even compare the signatures to known signatures of Killian. At least that is what he seems to have written here...

13 posted on 09/15/2004 10:20:36 PM PDT by steamboat (Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...)
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To: blackbart.223

Maybe they're really this stupid. After all, being a newsreader (and that's all Rather really is) does not require much mental candlepower. And these elites rib Dubya for supposedly being an idiot. The liberal mindset appears so breathtakingly shallow & intellectually challenged when it's put up for display like this.


14 posted on 09/15/2004 10:21:15 PM PDT by Steven W.
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To: Steven W.
Reposting a great post. I HAVE to start bookmarking so I can credit -

This is the same as a bank manager holding up a forged check stolen from George W. Bush and demanding that he answer the substantive question, "What were you doing in a whorehouse?"

15 posted on 09/15/2004 10:23:03 PM PDT by 1stMarylandRegiment (CBS Boycott day 002 and counting)
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To: Steven W.
"Maybe they're really this stupid.

In Dan Rather's case this true. Come to think of it this is true of CBS also. I believe this is going to bite them in the ass.

16 posted on 09/15/2004 10:37:15 PM PDT by blackbart.223
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To: Cableguy
The name and address checks out (note, this is public record information), so there really is a person by that name at that location. I only got info on a Judge James Pierce in Long Beach, but that's clearly not the same guy. No forensic experts are listed anywhere with that name (I would assume that any forensic expert worth a dime would put himself out on the web), and no reported court cases noting any expert testimony provided by a James J. Pierce.

Other issues:

The letterhead is remarkably unprofessional looking for a documents expert.

The opinion makes no reference to any specific features of any documents, and it does not identify what the "corresponding samples" are.

The opinion is not provided "within a degree of forensic certainty," or similar language, which is a requirement for any professional opinion.

What's with the use of "typed-written" (occasionally used)and "typed-face" (which is simply incorrect), instead of "type-written" and "type-face". Wouldn't a credible forensic document examiner know the proper terminology?

Ok; this guy has no publicly available credentials--very unusual for any forensic expert--and his opinion letter does not meet any of the industry standards. How then did CBS come to even know to contact this person? I don't know if CA requires Board Certification in forensic sciences as a document examiner (some states do), but there is no public license information on this guy at all.

17 posted on 09/15/2004 11:17:11 PM PDT by Ilya Mourometz
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To: Ilya Mourometz

Does this guy have white hair and glases? If he does, he may be a typewriter repairman CBS had on Monday or Tuesday saying the forgeries were authentic.


18 posted on 09/15/2004 11:26:42 PM PDT by Wacka
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To: Cableguy

Fax# (212) 975-1998

19 posted on 09/15/2004 11:30:19 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (What's the frequency Kenneth?)
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To: Cableguy

I'm sure that CBS can get a couple of document experts in Iran and North Korea to agree that they are real.


20 posted on 09/15/2004 11:32:35 PM PDT by igoramus987
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