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Can Islam change?
New Statesman ^ | Sept. 2004 | Ziauddin Sardar's

Posted on 09/12/2004 9:40:14 PM PDT by tbird5

Beslan and 9/11 are leading millions of Muslims to search their souls. Even clerics now question the harshest traditional laws and look for a more humane interpretation of their faith.

The Muslim world is changing. Three years after the atrocity of 9/11, it may be in the early stages of a reformation, albeit with a small "r". From Morocco to Indonesia, people are trying to develop a more contemporary and humane interpretation of Islam, and some countries are undergoing major transformations.

Much of the attention is focused on reformulating the sharia, the centuries-old body of Islamic law deeply embedded in a medieval psychology. The sharia is state law in many Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan and the Sudan. For many conservative and radical Muslims, the sharia is Islam: it cannot be changed, and must be imposed in exactly the shape it was first formulated in the ninth century. Since 9/11, there has been a seismic shift in this perception. More and more Muslims now perceive Islamic law to be dangerously obsolete. And these include the ulema, the religious scholars and clerics, who have a tremendous hold on the minds of the Muslim masses.

(Excerpt) Read more at newstatesman.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: islam; muslims; napalminthemorning
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To: CWOJackson

I thought so. You have no expertise and have decided your opinion on pure superstition.

You might be surprised what you find out when you actually dig into facts.

Most Muslims worldwide - a vast majority - not only want to fight this war but have a religious conviction that they will win. The occasional Western-assimilated 'reform' Muslim does not change this.


21 posted on 09/12/2004 10:12:50 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("With 64 days left, John Kerry still has time to change his mind 4 or 5 more times" - Rudy Giuliani)
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To: Restorer
But since the alternatives to change in Islam are either eternal conflict or extermination, I'm very much in favor of internal reform.

I don't know... extermination has a certain certainty to it. Internal reform is dua, until they are strong enough to overcome you.

The more I have to deal with islamofacists, the better the .44 Standard Cartridge looks.

/john

22 posted on 09/12/2004 10:13:55 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper
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To: thoughtomator
"You have no expertise and have decided your opinion on pure superstition."

LOL! You're speaking to yourself now? You should add ignorance in there with superstition...it permeates your views.

23 posted on 09/12/2004 10:15:28 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: nightdriver

I will add that you cannot change that which is born from hate/evil. Musims will smile at you while waiting for your guard to drop and then decapitate you. A religion of peace? and kerry was not a traitor to our country.(RIGHT)






24 posted on 09/13/2004 4:26:54 AM PDT by No Surrender No Retreat (These Colors Never Run( 7.62) "See Ya"ll At The VA Clinic" "Xin Loi My Boy")
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To: CWOJackson

Chief are you still on active duty?


25 posted on 09/13/2004 4:36:07 AM PDT by No Surrender No Retreat (These Colors Never Run( 7.62) "See Ya"ll At The VA Clinic" "Xin Loi My Boy")
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To: Restorer

AFE: Muhammadanism Sucks

Restorer: Perhaps it does. But since the alternatives to change in Islam are either eternal conflict or extermination, I'm very much in favor of internal reform.

***

Your position is noted.

I hope it doesn't take more than a few months and 3,000 people.

We can afford to lose another 3,000 innocent Americans in horrifying and disgusting way, right?

Or, what is a number acceptable to you before the SHEER IMPOSSIBILITY OF MODERATES STOPPING THIS INSANITY?

My buddy says 1 more is too many, and another says it could cost us hundreds of thousands or millions of innocent neighbors, family and friends.

Where do you fall? How many more dead at the hands of this Death Cult is acceptable to you?

I also will remind everyone that in most descriptions of the Sept. 11th, 2001 murderers, they all were described as your 'Average Muhammadan Nextdoor' by someone somewhere...


26 posted on 09/13/2004 8:46:22 AM PDT by ApesForEvolution (DemocRATS are communists and want to destroy America only to replace it with the USSA)
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To: CWOJackson
Muhammadanism is not a religion. It is a Death Cult of Opportunist Terrorists.
27 posted on 09/13/2004 8:52:40 AM PDT by ApesForEvolution (DemocRATS are communists and want to destroy America only to replace it with the USSA)
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To: ApesForEvolution

Your position is also noted.

However, merely saying that you won't accept another 9/11 is not much help.

Exactly what would you do to prevent it from occurring?

There is an awful lot of loose talk floating around about "killing them all," and I believe we need to think through the implications of such talk. Are we really willing to kill 250 million Arabs, including their women and children? Do we really want the US to go down as by far the greatest mass murderers in history? The Nazis only killed about 12 million innocents, the Commies about 100 million.

We're talking 250M Arabs and somewhere around a billion Muslims in total.

I'm certainly not willing to "kill them all." Are you?


28 posted on 09/13/2004 10:20:11 AM PDT by Restorer (They have the microphone, but we have the remote.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

See #28.

How many are you willing to kill?

I'm perfectly willing to kill all Islamofascists and those who support them.

I'm not willing to kill 250M to 1000M people, depending on whether you define the enemy as "Arabs" or "Muslims."


29 posted on 09/13/2004 10:23:16 AM PDT by Restorer (They have the microphone, but we have the remote.)
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To: Restorer

I'm for stripping Muhammadanism of it's 'religion' tag and call it what a is, a subversive terrorist movement.

I'm for internment of American Muhammadans and sending foreigner Muhammadans overseas.

I'm for securing America's borders - thousands of Muhammadans have possibly slipped in illegally. Could be tens of thousands.

I'm for crushing every government that uses Muhammadanism as it's tool to war with and destabilise through terror.

I'm for the mosques' symbols being destroyed and converting their use to community outreach.

And anywhere in the world that we can cordone off the remaining Muhammadans from damaging anyone else, go for it.

That's part of my plan...for starters and without self-analysis.


30 posted on 09/13/2004 10:34:07 AM PDT by ApesForEvolution (DemocRATS are communists and want to destroy America only to replace it with the USSA)
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To: No Surrender No Retreat

Re-retired after recall following 9/11.


31 posted on 09/13/2004 11:07:18 AM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: ApesForEvolution
Yawn...isn't it ashamed that some apes never did evolve. Give yourself a few millennium and you might get there.
32 posted on 09/13/2004 11:08:13 AM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: CWOJackson

Get a new writer, try a new line. Yours were tiring 1,000 efforts ago...Muhammadan sympathizer.


33 posted on 09/13/2004 11:16:53 AM PDT by ApesForEvolution (DemocRATS are communists and want to destroy America only to replace it with the USSA)
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To: ApesForEvolution
Muhammadan sympathizer?

Far from it, but it seems that all religions have their share of ignorant fools...which you are living proof of.

34 posted on 09/13/2004 11:23:08 AM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: CWOJackson

I don't believe in 'religion'. And you are starting to sound like a Muhammadan symp.


35 posted on 09/13/2004 11:26:40 AM PDT by ApesForEvolution (DemocRATS are communists and want to destroy America only to replace it with the USSA)
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To: ApesForEvolution
As I said, all religions and societies have their own ignorants. Take you for example, the only difference between you and a Palestinian suicide bomber is you strap on your mouth and blow your own arse off. Then strut around with smoking wreckage on the backside thumping your chest.

The best difference is you are totally harmless to everyone but yourself.

36 posted on 09/13/2004 11:29:36 AM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: CWOJackson
Religions can and do change.

Yes, religions do change. Often for the better. I think the bigger question is: "Does Islam want to change?"

Until then, regardless of how large or small it's terrorist arm is considered to be, it is a dead issue. And any change will require dropping their terrorist arms and require more pressure from their enablers, like our own lefties and the French leadership.

37 posted on 09/13/2004 11:31:33 AM PDT by fortunecookie (My grandparents didn't flee communism so that I could live in Kerry's Kommune.)
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: tbird5

If history is any indication, No. Fascism, under any banner, must be put down by force. Only then, can the civilized factions emerge.

A confrontation is inevitable. Only one will prevail.


39 posted on 09/13/2004 11:35:17 AM PDT by Search4Truth (When a man lies he murders some part of the world.)
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To: fortunecookie
"Until then, regardless of how large or small it's terrorist arm is considered to be, it is a dead issue."

That's too simplistic. That's like saying until no one who identifies themselves as a Christian opposed abortion then all Christians are heathen.

Islam is spread over many diverse nations, sects and societies just like Christianity is. And just like Christianity, there are the devout and those who pay lip service, just like Catholics who vote for pro-abortion candidates.

Religions used to change societies but today it's more often the reverse, societies change religion (religion adapts to society to perserve itself...again, the Catholic Church in America is a good example).

40 posted on 09/13/2004 11:37:12 AM PDT by CWOJackson
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