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To: MamaLucci
Won't the White House and/or the DOD HAVE to eventually get involved in this if it is proven that Killian's signature was forged?

Forging a signature on a military document is a felony.

I suspect the FBI will be interested in somebody at CBS.

13 posted on 09/10/2004 9:51:43 PM PDT by sinkspur ("Can someone tell me where to find an ordained archpriest?"--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: sinkspur

Pokkata - wheep - pokkata wheep - pokkata wheep

Audios Dan and John


16 posted on 09/10/2004 9:54:52 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: sinkspur
I suspect the FBI will be interested in somebody at CBS.

Good. This goes far beyond dirty politics.

18 posted on 09/10/2004 9:56:56 PM PDT by MamaLucci (Libs, want answers on 911? Ask Clinton why he met with Monica more than with his CIA director.)
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To: sinkspur
And in the case of fraud, CBS loses the protection usually allowed for protecting sources. Plus, it's a felony to lie to an FBI agent, so Danny had better be on his toes to tell the truth.

This game just moved into another level altogether . . . if the sig is a forgery. And if AG Ashcroft gives it the nod.

Hey, this is fun.

23 posted on 09/10/2004 10:02:17 PM PDT by savedbygrace
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To: sinkspur

Problem with that is that they probably won't be considered military documents, or at least not documents where the forger pretends to be a military officer "acting under the authority" of the US of A. They've been purported to be from Killian's personal files, as if they were from his diary.

But I do think the Federal Election Commission has got to take a long look if either the DNC or CBS admits that the DNC provided the forgeries to CBS - or they can go on the Prowler report from today to find out which DNC staffer originally received the documents, when, where, how, why etc...


49 posted on 09/10/2004 10:26:00 PM PDT by Kryptonite
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To: sinkspur
Check this out, via Volokh Conspiracy. And please forgive me if this is not the proper way to link and cite to another blog.

[Eugene Volokh, September 10, 2004 at 4:28pm] Possible Trackbacks
Forgery of documents intended to be used in an election:If the Killian letters (the ones that purport to relate to aspects of President Bush's National Guard service) are indeed forged, the forger might be criminally prosecuted.

My sense is that most forgery statutes don't apply to frauds aimed at influencing votes, rather than to getting money or property or the like. I might be mistaken, but that's what my tentative looking around suggests. Nonetheless, I've found at least two statutes (one with the help of reader William Modahl, who also raised the broader question for me) that specifically do prohibit election-related frauds:

NH Rev Stat 666:6: "Any person who shall, without authority, sign the name of any other person to any letter or other document, or falsely represent that any other has written such letter or document, knowing such representation to be false, for the purpose of influencing votes, . . . shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."

Ohio Rev. Code § 3517.21: "No person, during the course of any campaign for nomination or election to public office or office of a political party, shall knowingly and with intent to affect the outcome of such campaign . . . [f]alsely identify the source of a statement, [or] issue statements under the name of another person without authorization." [R.C. § 3517.992 makes this a misdemeanor.]

Of course, the forgery likely wasn't done in New Hampshire or Ohio. But my sense — again, tentative — is that because the forgery was likely an attempt to influence (among other things) elections conducted by New Hampshire and Ohio of Hampshire and Ohio presidential electors, those states would indeed have jurisdiction to try the forgers. If any jurisdiction experts can tell me I'm wrong, please do.

But what about the First Amendment? The Court has generally suggested that knowing falsehoods lack constitutional value, and thus can be punished. Knowing falsehoods about the government, however, seem to be categorically protected even though they're deliberate lies (see New York Times v. Sullivan); and at least one state court has struck down a general ban on knowingly false statements in election campaigns, theorizing that the First Amendment exception isn't for lies generally, but only for specific kinds of lies, such as libel, fraud, perjury, and the like. See State ex rel. Public Disclosure Comm'n v. 119 Vote No! Committee, 135 Wash. 2d 618 (1998).

On the other hand, courts have upheld the Ohio bans on knowingly false statements in election campaigns, see, e.g., State v. Davis, 27 Ohio App.3d 65 (1985); Briggs v. Ohio Elections Com'n, 61 F.3d 487, 494 (6th Cir. 1995). And this false statement seems to be a false statement about a particular person (whether or not it's actually libelous), which would make it pretty clearly unprotected both under the libel cases (e.g., New York Times v. Sullivan) and the false light cases (e.g., Time v. Hill). Under normal tort law rules, the statement might or might not be actionable; but I think that the First Amendment doesn't impose any constitutional barrier to punishing it.

Note that the knowledge requirement means (quite rightly) that if CBS was the unknowing victim of the fraud (if, of course, there was a fraud), it and its reporters wouldn't be criminally liable.

Volokh Conspiracy. http://volokh.com/
57 posted on 09/10/2004 10:33:07 PM PDT by radicalamericannationalist (The Convention convinced me. 4 MORE YEARS!!!!!!)
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To: sinkspur
I suspect the FBI will be interested in somebody at CBS.

They should be, but your statement implies that there is no political direction in their choice of investigation. I don't think they will touch this, as things currently stand.

139 posted on 09/11/2004 7:14:29 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: sinkspur
Forging a signature on a military document is a felony.

However, if the document itself is a forgery, than does it qualify as a "military document"?

150 posted on 09/11/2004 2:38:55 PM PDT by TaxPayer2000 (The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government,)
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