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Why Did JEB Stuart Fire Two Cannon Shots on July 3, 1863?
9/10/04 | carton253

Posted on 09/10/2004 3:46:54 AM PDT by carton253

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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: Democratshavenobrains

He STILL was a great General regardless...


22 posted on 09/10/2004 5:36:40 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: carton253

Thanks....here is a link for your interest:

http://www.battleoffranklin.com/


24 posted on 09/10/2004 5:39:05 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861
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To: carton253
Usually threads about the Civil War disintegrate. Hopefully, we can keep the discussion about the Battle of Gettysburg.

Good luck.

25 posted on 09/10/2004 5:39:17 AM PDT by Skooz (My Biography: Psalm 40:1-3)
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To: mojo03

Actually, even great Generals can make mistakes. Napoleon was a military genius, but he did make mistakes. Robert E. Lee did as well at Gettysburg.


26 posted on 09/10/2004 5:41:00 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: LS
On day 3, Lee could have BROKEN the Union lines . . . if he had a reserve already on the way behind Pickett AND if Stuart's cavalry had galloped through immediately.

Wow! For all that to happen...Lee would have had to be operating under a different stated objective, which he was not.

But breaking a line and exploiting it are two different things. Imagine Armstead's units in a pocket, surrounded by the Union forces on each side with enfilade fire, and in front of them by the entire Yankee reserve, and

Okay...but there is so much you are leaving out... If the plan of attack had been carried out as directed, then Armstead would not have been surrounded. His brigade would have been folding up the Union Line into Ewell's and Hill's waiting arms.

IMHO, Lee was LUCKY he didn't have a reserve, because the entire army would have been annihilated had his forces actually taken a narrow strip of Cemetary Hill and tried to hold it. The war easily could have been over that day if Lee was "successful."

These types of overgeneralizations at the what-if games doesn't leave much room for discussion. I could as easily over generalize and say that Lee would have held the field like he had done in every battle he had fought up to that point.

28 posted on 09/10/2004 5:41:17 AM PDT by carton253 (All I am and all I have is at the service of my country. General Jackson)
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To: carton253
North=1

South=0

What's left to know?

29 posted on 09/10/2004 5:42:17 AM PDT by Glenn (The two keys to character: 1) Learn how to keep a secret. 2) ...)
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To: carton253
I don't know about this, Picketts charge was your basic CW frontal charge. Many CW generals tried this before and after Gettysburg. While Lee accepted responsibility for the charge, I don't recall ever reading anything about Lee regretting the charge (as compared to Grant at Cold Harbor), I suspect that Lee didn't want to say anything that would cause his men to loose faith in him as a leader.

Lee really needed to win this battle and I suspect that he gambled that using the sledgehammer approach was his best option. I'm sure he knew that even if sucessfull, it was going to be costly. Longstreet, from everything I have read, wasn't a happy camper, even years after the battle. Pickett on the other hand, wanted to get his name in the history books and saw this as his best chance to achieve that goal.

Tom

30 posted on 09/10/2004 5:42:21 AM PDT by fatboy
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To: mojo03

AMEN! I'm inclined, however, to believe that the combination of his heart disease and the loss of Jackson adversely affected his tactical judgment. I'm not always impressed with Lee as a strategist, but as a tactician he was usually on the ball. Sorta like Napoleon :-).


31 posted on 09/10/2004 5:43:07 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Dick Cheney is MY dark, macho, paranoid Vice President!)
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: carton253

To be sure, the best option for Lee would have been to have withdrawn to a position between Washington and the Yankees, and get a good position on some high ground. I would bet if Stonewall Jackson had been alive at the time, the battle would have been a Confederate victory.


33 posted on 09/10/2004 5:44:17 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861
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To: carton253
You have it! The accepted story of this battle goes against Lee's own battle reports. for a great analysis of this, read 'Lee's Real Plan at Gettysburg' by Troy D. Harmon. He is a guide and Park Ranger at Gettysburg.I just recently returned from there on a 4 day guided trip. For a chronicling of this trip(w/photos) , check out my blog.I am still in the process of this writing, so it is incomplete as of yet. I have a link to this book there.

click here

34 posted on 09/10/2004 5:45:45 AM PDT by Jackknife (.......Land of the Free,because of the Brave.)
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To: jakkknife

I must add, the way my blog is set up, you must read from the bottom up, because it posts the most recent post at the top.


35 posted on 09/10/2004 5:47:27 AM PDT by Jackknife (.......Land of the Free,because of the Brave.)
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To: Tax-chick
I'm not talking about over-generalizations. I was reading his official report. He wanted Longstreet's division to take the Peach Orchard since it was a perfect place for artillery. The artillery could have provided enfilade fire upon Cemetery Ridge and helped Longstreet's goal to roll up the Union Flank towards Cemetary Hill.

Realistically, we'd have to say that the "objective" of the campaign as a whole was simply to win a decisive victory over the Union Army.

Well...duh! LOL! I'm sure that Lee wanted a little more than the Peach Orchard, but battles are one an objective at a time.

The whole Gettysburg battle was improvised, after all, once the leading units made contact without any orders from the commanders.

Well, I disagree with this statement. Lee wasn't near Gettysburg by accident. Gettysburg was a strategic town. The armies may have stumbled into battle...but it didn't take Lee long to establish his plan and his objectives.

36 posted on 09/10/2004 5:47:55 AM PDT by carton253 (All I am and all I have is at the service of my country. General Jackson)
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To: carton253

Official results are written with hindsight, was my point.


37 posted on 09/10/2004 5:49:37 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Dick Cheney is MY dark, macho, paranoid Vice President!)
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To: FrankWild

Jackson can be forgiven for his performance in the Seven Days battles since he was new to working with Lee. Any mistakes that he made did not affect the outcome at Malvern Hill. That was Lee's decision alone.


38 posted on 09/10/2004 5:49:59 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: mojo03

Amen.


39 posted on 09/10/2004 5:51:13 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: fatboy
The point was that Pickett's Charge was not frontal as it was oblique. Pickett was perpendicular to the Emmittsburg Road and not parallel. The line only straightened and bunched at the copse of trees and the angle because of the fierce flanking fire.

Lee wasn't using the sledgehammer effect. He was applying strategy that had worked in the past. Gettysburg was not to be Fredericksburg. It was to be 2nd Manassas in the planning and the initial moments. Pickett's men could not stand up to the flanking fire and therefore the line disintegrated... the disintegration of the line has become, to historians, Lee's strategy.

40 posted on 09/10/2004 5:52:55 AM PDT by carton253 (All I am and all I have is at the service of my country. General Jackson)
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