Posted on 09/10/2004 12:01:52 AM PDT by GOPcapitalist
Are the Killian Memos a Forgery?
The media is buzzing with the possibility that the Killian memos broadcast on 60 Minutes are forgeries. The truth hangs on whether any commonly-used typewriters in the 60's-70's had proportional spacing. If you HAVE a typewriter like that, please type out a replica of Killian's first memo and see if your typewriter matches his.
Bump post #69 on Kerning: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1211818/posts?page=62#62
Great tag line.
If this is a forgery, I'm sure it's another in a long line of Karl Rove's stunts. But it's not a forgery. Come on, CBS vetted it with experts, of which there must be many. On the other hand, the detractors are all right-wing bloggers. (Who you know will attack anything that knocks bush.)
My only question Is how thoroughly did CBS review these documents? How many experts did they show these documents to before going on with the story? What were their background and area of expertise?
CBS is a creditable news source. They didn't get that way by being stupid. These docs were probably gone over with a fine tooth comb until they were sure it didn't have any nits.
what document? it doesn't matter. the guy's a deserter who kills for fun he is doomed to failure I don't care if they say it was hand-typed by Rove and given to Rather by Andrew Card dressed as Huggy Bear.
So Rove gave them to CBS? Is CBS that gullible?
There are real docs that the Whitehouse had and they created forgery forms of these docs and passed them off to discredit the real ones if they ever surfaced. It mucks it up enough that if real versions surfaced, noone would ever believe it - the "forgery" meme is planted.
I agree - its a fraud Walt has showed two other era documents "as proof" that have the superscripted "th" and none of them even closely resemble the document 60 mins had - they fell for it hook line and sinker. They look completely different in the way it was done. If I knew how to PSP them side by side I would but I am looking at them now and this 60 mins thing was a fraud and Rove is ROFL at them.
Oh, please. Like a bunch of amateurs on the Internet would be able to figure out something that CBS News stuck its neck out over and never thought to investigate. Riiight.
Yikes. I started out thinking this was a Rove plant, after reading http://www.warblogging.com / - then I was convinced it wasn't. I've been crazy all day about this thing. Now I'm back where I started. I need to be sedated.
What's with all you paranoid people? Get a grip!!! This is exactly what goo defence attorneys do...CREATE DOUBT!!!! There's absolutely no reason to think these doxs are forgeries! NONE!!!
Document is forgery -- this can become the basis of an allegation that the whitehouse continues to deceive the public by lying to us, sometimes in very clever ways.
CBS has to have something to substantiate the authenticity of the memos. If it doesn't, it has cost itself any credibility it had. Obviously, this wouldn't be good for a it's news division. CBS' story had to be thoroughly vetted!
Oh good GOD! Stop and think for a moment...IF it were discovered that they were a forgery then the media would HOT after the story of who did it and why. The blowback from that would be bigger than the actual story.
What crap. The issue is are they believable? Hell yes. And what the f*ck does a wife or son for that matter really know about husband/dad. Well sh*t, let's ask Hillary. What's really Rovian is to suggest the documents are fake. Chimp has been an underachiever his whole goddamn life, much to our pain, so why would they NOT be authentic?
I'm surprised they ran with this hoax now, instead of 3 days before the election. The Democrats and their willing accomplices in the media just can't get anything right.
The next time Dan Rather comes out with an expose', it too will be questioned from all sides.
Try early 20s. That range will never have regularly used a typewriter, ever. They might have seen one, but they would only have used it on forms, if that. And it's damn likely to be the late-night-toking-let's-mess-with-Bush group, when you consider their campaign dimbulbs are either old libs or young dummies.
I'd put money on the latter pulling this one.
Dan-o may be Barnes' 40-yr bud, but I can't get how that would imply "trusting the source". As a Texan, most of my life I've known that Ben Barnes is a crook. So does everyone else in TX if they're informed & have common sense.
The guy who retired in '72 is the Guard General, Walter Staudt, who the memo names as supposedly the higher up who Bush is expecting to fix him a way around Killian's "order" to Bush.
Nobody is claiming that Killian, whose (fake) sig is on the memo, had already retired before the memo date of 8-73.
I know this can get confusing.
>>>> What's scary, when you think about it, is that Kerry/CBS may have gotten away with this if they simply pulled out an old typewriter, and added a few typos and whiteout ink...
That's exactly why I don't think they did it, but I am guaranteeing they wish whoeever did it had. Somehow this either started out as a gag (ala Kerry/Fonda pic) or a trap.
:)
Go tell 'em about your ole' Strategerio 6900 that had a superscript key, proportional faunt, a centering button, and a bad tendency to splatter ink dots all over the background of the page it was typing. They'll make it front page news! And uses Microsoft Word formatting!
Hmmm, in that Democrats.com post he shows a cap of page 3 of the 'Miscellaneous' section of the record from USA Today, which does seem to have a th in there--not really superscript (but even then not used consistently throughout the same document). This would be a feature on some typewriters that is not a true 'superscript,' it is a special character. The telltale difference is that the special character stays within the top of the line of type, since, as a character on the typeball/arm, it must stay inline with the other letters to make contact with the ribbon and roller. The superscript in the memo, you can see, reaches above the line of type, which is not consistent with the movement of an aligned die as used in a typewriter. PERHAPS a character could be moved that high on the die, but it seems unllikely, and at least is a significant difference between what the DU'er points out and the original memo.
UM, SHOULDN'T THIS HAVE BEEN DONE BEFORE THE 60 MINUTES INTERVIEW????
HELLO?
LOL, I'm dyin' here.
Interestingly enough one response points to "W"s supposedly official personnel record and says, more or less, "Ha, hah, there's one of those "th"s in there, so that means the Texas ANG had machines that could do the job.
How about this one ~ that even "W"'s official personnel folder list which does nothing more than identify document names, dates, places, etc. was also "Bergerized".
I'm thinking here that if the Clintonistas could have "Bergerized" John Kerry's records, they could very well have "Bergerized" "W"'s records, and probably the records of others who could have been expected to run for President some day.
Wasn't Jimmy Carter the first President to use a word processor ~ a Wang? Maybe he and his gumbahs did it. What is Sandy Berger's relationship with Jimmy.
I worked for nearly 20 years as a Typist for a major electric utility and I know there were some Selectric's that had a custom ball and special key to type superscript.
Having said that, even in a major corporation most typewriters did not have that ability. My husband was in the army and worked in communications in 1971 to 1973. He assures me he never even saw a Selectric during those years.
Also, there are other problems in the SeeBS forgeries that could not be done on a 1970 era typewriter, proportional spacing for one, word wrap for another.
This is good, because it will settle the issue of whether it could, physically, have been done.
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