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To: Squantos; Travis McGee
I'm familiar with the argument. Nooks, bio weapons, chemical weapons and mines, and so forth, are indiscriminate weapons. Their usefulness in warfare varies, but they are distinguished from firearms in that they are both impossible to aim at a specific (one individual) target, or they may destroy life and property at a future time without the ability of the user to control the circumstances. As such, they are not protected by the second amendment.

Why are Squantos and I discussing such extreme terms?

Because the argument exists that if semi-auto rifles were permitted by the second amendment (or any other weapon for that matter), so should nuclear weapons. Therefore, the second amendment, in this position, doesn't apply.

This is a false premise. Weapons with accuracy and specificity in terms of time are "discriminate" arms, which can be well-controlled. I would argue that full-auto small arms are included in this category. A vet I knew once used to say that tanks were protected, as well. I still don't know if he were joking, but I think he was serious. He was raised to mistrust the government but had full and complete faith in the Constitution. That is as it should be.

The second amendment is a doomsday clause for resetting the Constitution itself. If the AWB renewal fails, we can gain a small measure of confidence that "doomsday" for the republic has been pushed off indefinitely. If it is renewed, we can surmise that doomsday is perhaps not right around the corner, but may in fact be possible within our lifetimes. It's interesting to note that CW1 began surrounding rumors that Northern armies were rampaging in the Appalachian mountains disarming militias. The secessionist movement lost then, and would probably lose in the future, as well.

We're talking about deterrence, then, aren't we?

The founding fathers would have said that doomsday had been reached at the moment the state had more concentrated firepower than the American people. They didn't anticipate indiscriminate weapons like nuclear arms. Although we can't assume that a depraved state wouldn't use nuclear weapons against its own citizens in a CW scenario, we can bet that they'll be afraid to try.

More realistic doomsday scenarios involve the military and how it would react with orders to use helicopters, tanks, and heavy bombers wielding conventional bombs on patriots resisting disarmament. Having been sworn to uphold the second amendment, I think I know what their reaction would be.

The second amendment is still protecting our freedom today, of that we should have no doubts at all. The element of deterrence holds. Look for every effort to avoid this issue in the pressitute discussions of the AWB. No one wants to discuss the elephant in the living room. No one wants to mention that the Democratic party fears an armed populace that might just resort to violence to defend its rights. In other words, the founding fathers were rolling in their graves in 1934, 1968, and 1984.

They're whispering in the ears of our legislative body today... "What will you do for freedom? Or is it something else you want, Senator?"
32 posted on 09/09/2004 3:04:57 PM PDT by risk
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To: risk

You're right, gun grabbers love to haul out their straw man argument of tanks, howitzers, bazookas, flame throwers, satchel charges, whenever we defenders of the constitution reference the type of modern day INDIVIDUAL military small arm protected by Amendment #2.

Gun grabbers are increasingly trying to separate the right to keep and bear arms from its constitutional underpinnings. To everyone but liberals and gun grabbers the word militia implies a body organized for military use. The Supreme Court Miller decision of 1939 held that the militia was 'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time."

To begin with, only the national government was represented at the trial. With nobody arguing to the contrary, the court followed standard court procedure and assumed that the law was constitutional until proven otherwise. If both sides were present, the outcome may have been much different.

However, since only one party showed up, the case will stand in the court records as is. As to the militia, Mr. Justice McReynolds related the beliefs of the Founding Fathers when commenting historically about the Second Amendment. He stated that, ". . .The common view was that adequate defense of country and laws could be secured through the militia- civilians primarily, soldiers on occasion.

"The significance attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense.

It is clear that the firearms that are most suited for modern-day militia use are those semi automatic military pattern weapons that the yellow press calls "assault weapons". Since nations such as the Swiss trust their citizenry with true selective fire assault rifles, it seems to me that this country ought to be at least able to trust its law-abiding citizenry with the semi automatic version.

Self-defense is a vital corollary benefit of the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. But its primary constitutional reason for being is for service in the well-regulated militia which is necessary to the security of a free state. WE must be prepared to maintain that security against even our own forces that are responding to the orders of a tyrannical government, and the only viable way to counter a standing army's qualitative advantage is with a huge quantitative one. Don't let the gun grabbers and their politician allies separate us from the constitutional reason for the right to keep and bear arms. Miltary pattern weapons are precisly the weapons that should be MOST constitutionally protected. Even defenders of the right often neglect the constitutional aspect of it, and concentrate on their near non-existent use in crime.

Now let's address the gun grabber straw man. We need to make those type of CREW SERVED weapons available at some level to the well regulated (meaning well trained, organized and disciplined) militia that is formed as a military unit to meet whatever threat that it is appropriate for them to use such weapons as a unit. These weapons would be maintained and stored by such units as a body.


33 posted on 09/09/2004 6:14:40 PM PDT by DMZFrank
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