Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: kjvail
First of all you are confusing a state religion with a religious state, what the piece refers to is restoring the social kingship of Christ as it existed in the Middle Ages prior to the supremcy of the state in the social order.

I know what a "state religion" is - could you kindly explain what a "religious state" means, and why it is different?

Also, from what the article and you both have said, it seems to me that you want a country that is either 100% Catholic, and/or whose social foundation is Catholicism. Where would that leave the 75% of the US that isn't Catholic?

If I've misunderstood, forgive me.

7 posted on 09/04/2004 7:27:33 AM PDT by valkyrieanne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies ]


To: valkyrieanne
First of all one has to define what the "state is. Many think I mean the totality of the people in the nation, that's an understandable error I suppose in a society where authority is derived from the "consent of the governed" but this is not what is meant in Catholic teaching. What we mean is the actual government appartus.

A state church often imposes on the populace a mandatory observance of that Church, as in Islamic theocracies or Angelican England of the 18th Century, this is not a Christian concept and it is from this flawed concept that the doctrine of "separation of church and state" is derived

Also, from what the article and you both have said, it seems to me that you want a country that is either 100% Catholic, and/or whose social foundation is Catholicism. Where would that leave the 75% of the US that isn't Catholic?

In the view of the Catholic monarchist error has no rights, the state thru the civil law must profess and act on the precepts of the true religion, this is clear from the encyclicals Mirari Vos and Immortale Dei

13. Now We consider another abundant source of the evils with which the Church is afflicted at present: indifferentism. This perverse opinion is spread on all sides by the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained. Surely, in so clear a matter, you will drive this deadly error far from the people committed to your care. With the admonition of the apostle that "there is one God, one faith, one baptism"[16] may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatever. They should consider the testimony of Christ Himself that "those who are not with Christ are against Him,"[17] and that they disperse unhappily who do not gather with Him. Therefore "without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate."[18] Let them hear Jerome who, while the Church was torn into three parts by schism, tells us that whenever someone tried to persuade him to join his group he always exclaimed: "He who is for the See of Peter is for me."[19] A schismatic flatters himself falsely if he asserts that he, too, has been washed in the waters of regeneration. Indeed Augustine would reply to such a man: "The branch has the same form when it has been cut off from the vine; but of what profit for it is the form, if it does not live from the root?"[20]

14. This shameful font of indifferentism gives rise to that absurd and erroneous proposition which claims that liberty of conscience must be maintained for everyone. It spreads ruin in sacred and civil affairs, though some repeat over and over again with the greatest impudence that some advantage accrues to religion from it. "But the death of the soul is worse than freedom of error," as Augustine was wont to say.[21] When all restraints are removed by which men are kept on the narrow path of truth, their nature, which is already inclined to evil, propels them to ruin. Then truly "the bottomless pit"[22] is open from which John saw smoke ascending which obscured the sun, and out of which locusts flew forth to devastate the earth. Thence comes transformation of minds, corruption of youths, contempt of sacred things and holy laws -- in other words, a pestilence more deadly to the state than any other. Experience shows, even from earliest times, that cities renowned for wealth, dominion, and glory perished as a result of this single evil, namely immoderate freedom of opinion, license of free speech, and desire for novelty.

6. As a consequence, the State, constituted as it is, is clearly bound to act up to the manifold and weighty duties linking it to God, by the public profession of religion. Nature and reason, which command every individual devoutly to worship God in holiness, because we belong to Him and must return to Him, since from Him we came, bind also the civil community by a like law. For, men living together in society are under the power of God no less than individuals are, and society, no less than individuals, owes gratitude to God who gave it being and maintains it and whose everbounteous goodness enriches it with countless blessings. Since, then, no one is allowed to be remiss in the service due to God, and since the chief duty of all men is to cling to religion in both its teaching and practice-not such religion as they may have a preference for, but the religion which God enjoins, and which certain and most clear marks show to be the only one true religion -- it is a public crime to act as though there were no God. So, too, is it a sin for the State not to have care for religion as a something beyond its scope, or as of no practical benefit; or out of many forms of religion to adopt that one which chimes in with the fancy; for we are bound absolutely to worship God in that way which He has shown to be His will. All who rule, therefore, would hold in honor the holy name of God, and one of their chief duties must be to favor religion, to protect it, to shield it under the credit and sanction of the laws, and neither to organize nor enact any measure that may compromise its safety. This is the bounden duty of rulers to the people over whom they rule. For one and all are we destined by our birth and adoption to enjoy, when this frail and fleeting life is ended, a supreme and final good in heaven, and to the attainment of this every endeavor should be directed. Since, then, upon this depends the full and perfect happiness of mankind, the securing of this end should be of all imaginable interests the most urgent. Hence, civil society, established for the common welfare, should not only safeguard the wellbeing of the community, but have also at heart the interests of its individual members, in such mode as not in any way to hinder, but in every manner to render as easy as may be, the possession of that highest and unchangeable good for which all should seek. Wherefore, for this purpose, care must especially be taken to preserve unharmed and unimpeded the religion whereof the practice is the link connecting man with God.

This does not mean that the state imposes observance on the people, that is not its role. However it does conform the laws to truth.

I recommned the entire encyclical Immortale Dei for more depth of discussion

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13sta.htm

"My kingdom is not of this world." - Christ the Only Mediator Between God and Man

An incorrect reading of scripture for the Lutheran tradition.

12 posted on 09/04/2004 9:44:45 AM PDT by kjvail (Judica me Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson