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To: kjvail
In the view of the Catholic monarchist error has no rights, the state thru the civil law must profess and act on the precepts of the true religion, this is clear from the encyclicals Mirari Vos and Immortale Dei.

What does it mean to say that "error has no rights," when you're talking about government? Are you referring to a belief that all religions other than Catholicism are false, and thus "other religions" have "no rights" in the "Catholic state?"

IOW, are you suggesting that the US no longer be a constitutional republic based on the consent of the governed?

13 posted on 09/04/2004 1:51:34 PM PDT by valkyrieanne
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To: valkyrieanne
"What does it mean to say that "error has no rights," when you're talking about government? Are you referring to a belief that all religions other than Catholicism are false, and thus "other religions" have "no rights" in the "Catholic state?" That'd be correct, yes.

Politics is the morality of a society - laws define what is right and wrong in the public sphere so ideas have consequences.

Think of it this way, would you want airplanes built with a false understanding of mathematics? Or medicine practiced with a flawed understanding of biology? Would you just hand the medical student the textbook one day and his diploma the next? Would you tell him to apply the knowledge within at his own discretion?

Of course you wouldn't, that wouldn't be rational. But this is exactly what we do when we deny the teachings of the Church that cannot err on matters of faith and morals, in fact it is worse because the instructors at a Medical school can teach error.

Much like the patient under the care of an incompetent doctor, Western civilization is slowing dying of the cancer of liberalism.

500 years after Martin Luther posted his 95 Theses is the world better off?

The Catholic Church calls the 20th Century the Century of Martyrs because more people were martryed in in that in all other centuries combined ! More people were murdered by their own governments in the 20th Century than were alive at the time of Christ ! Racism, nationalism, athiesm,statism have all been the spawn of liberal political theory. Its a line of error built upon error: Decartes, Hobbes, Locke, Rosseau, Voltaire, Nietsche, Marx.

IOW, are you suggesting that the US no longer be a constitutional republic based on the consent of the governed?

Not sure what IOW means.

Personally no, I have no love for democracy or republicanism. I think it enshries the error of the masses.

Becuse of original sin evil ideas are likely to win the public debate. Radical egalitarianism is contrary to human nature, capitialism enshrines greed and socialism/communism enshries envy. One shouldn't base a society on a cardinal sin.

Although the Angelic Doctor himself stated:

I answer that, We must of necessity say that the world is governed by one. For since the end of the government of the world is that which is essentially good, which is the greatest good; the government of the world must be the best kind of government. Now the best government is the government by one. The reason of this is that government is nothing but the directing of the things governed to the end; which consists in some good. But unity belongs to the idea of goodness, as Boethius proves (De Consol. iii, 11) from this, that, as all things desire good, so do they desire unity; without which they would cease to exist. For a thing so far exists as it is one. Whence we observe that things resist division, as far as they can; and the dissolution of a thing arises from defect therein. Therefore the intention of a ruler over a multitude is unity, or peace. Now the proper cause of unity is one. For it is clear that several cannot be the cause of unity or concord, except so far as they are united. Furthermore, what is one in itself is a more apt and a better cause of unity than several things united. Therefore a multitude is better governed by one than by several. From this it follows that the government of the world, being the best form of government, must be by one. This is expressed by the Philosopher (Metaph. xii, Did. xi, 10): "Things refuse to be ill governed; and multiplicity of authorities is a bad thing, therefore there should be one ruler." Summa Theological, 103

- the Church herself has no specific teaching on the form of government, only it's purpose, which is to provide for the common good and assist the Church in the salvation of souls:

1886 Society is essential to the fulfillment of the human vocation. To attain this aim, respect must be accorded to the just hierarchy of values, which "subordinates physical and instinctual dimensions to interior and spiritual ones:"8

Human society must primarily be considered something pertaining to the spiritual. Through it, in the bright light of truth, men should share their knowledge, be able to exercise their rights and fulfill their obligations, be inspired to seek spiritual values; mutually derive genuine pleasure from the beautiful, of whatever order it be; always be readily disposed to pass on to others the best of their own cultural heritage; and eagerly strive to make their own the spiritual achievements of others. These benefits not only influence, but at the same time give aim and scope to all that has bearing on cultural expressions, economic, and social institutions, political movements and forms, laws, and all other structures by which society is outwardly established and constantly developed.9

1887 The inversion of means and ends,10 which results in giving the value of ultimate end to what is only a means for attaining it, or in viewing persons as mere means to that end, engenders unjust structures which "make Christian conduct in keeping with the commandments of the divine Law-giver difficult and almost impossible."11

1888 It is necessary, then, to appeal to the spiritual and moral capacities of the human person and to the permanent need for his inner conversion, so as to obtain social changes that will really serve him. The acknowledged priority of the conversion of heart in no way eliminates but on the contrary imposes the obligation of bringing the appropriate remedies to institutions and living conditions when they are an inducement to sin, so that they conform to the norms of justice and advance the good rather than hinder it.12

Catechism of the Catholic Church 1886 - 1888

I don't see how a secularized state that denies the true Church and all She teaches can possibly result in a just society.

15 posted on 09/05/2004 4:58:46 PM PDT by kjvail (Judica me Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta)
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