A European Conversation

Town Hall ^ | September 2, 2004 | Maggie Gallagher [Universal Press Syndicate]

[quidnunc]

"People hate you. Everyone hates you. The whole world hates you." The pretty middle-aged woman, a Swiss mother and scholar, at the dinner table in Geneva earnestly wants to make that perfectly clear.

She isn't angry with me. She thinks the American people are totally ignorant, misled by the media and a criminal president. She also thinks the United States invaded Afghanistan in order to grab an oil pipeline.

This is my test of whether conversation is possible. I can understand how Europeans can believe the war in Iraq was about oil. After all, European nations like France and Russia had been benefiting from sweetheart oil deals in Iraq for years. But Afghanistan?

That small, rocky, undeveloped, desperately poor nation dominated by tribal warlords? Yeah, sure the war on terror is just an excuse. We've been lusting to take over Afghanistan for years. As if America needs a warm-water port.

But I persevere, trying to "achieve disagreement," to understand (even if I can't make her understand) why the world looks so different to her than to me and most other Americans (Michael Moore fans excepted). Sixty percent of Americans support the Bush Doctrine of pre-emptive war, according to a Pew Research Center poll last month reported in USA Today. Even John Kerry says he will unilaterally use force to protect the United States, if necessary.

This is exactly what makes my sweet Swiss friend lapse into hate speech. "What right have you to go into Iraq?" she asks. "Where does the U.N. get that right?" I counter.

For me it is a serious question. The United Nations has its uses, but how can the majority vote of bureaucrats representing dictatorships make a war right or wrong?

-snip-

[truth_seeker]

"Same tired Euro-jealousy. They haven't figured out yet, that their Socialist governments don't work well...so America is the bad, evil black sheep...:-)"

I agree to a degree of jealousy, or maybe call it "intellectual pride."

It is a block to seeing the facts of history. For over 55 years, Europe has had a "free" defense against the threat of attack.

As such, they have come to deeply embrace the view that the UN and EU are the reason for their peace and prosperity, overlooking the "free" defense shield provided by us.

I disagree with your contention their governments don't work. In fact, both we and they have "mixed" economies. Granted they have geater government in their economies, but they do work.

If necessary again, we will defend them and they would be our allies. Germany could easily elect a more pro-US government. Blair and Britain have been pretty good allies recently, as have MOST others. Italy, Spain, Portugal, Denmark, Holland, Poland and others.

Europe is not the US, will never be just like us. But to denigrate them is not constructive.

[longtermmemmory]

Europeans have no depth to their political views.

The are in fact the most ignorant obtuse people in the world. CNN is #1 out of 1 in europe. Last night they were #6 out of 6 in the USA.

Basically it boils down to the USA is wrong because we hate you.

They also report the UN like it actually matters.

[EagleUSA]

I agree with you on the issue of their taking for grantid, the free nuclear umbrella that Europe has lived under, courtesy of the US taxpayer. We saved them from Hitler, and they have been spoiled ever since.

When I analyze their governments, I look at the Scandanavian countries, which are extreme Socialist in nature and none of them have robust economies, and no where near the standard of living that the U.S., as a capitalist society, has. That type of government destroys and suppresses individual productivity and reward, which is the absolute backbone of the sucsess of the U.S.

No thanks --- :-)

[truth_seeker]

"When I analyze their governments, I look at the Scandanavian countries, which are extreme Socialist in nature and none of them have robust economies, and no where near the standard of living that the U.S., as a capitalist society, has."

You say "no where near the standard of living." I believe that in fact several European countries DO HAVE standards of living near to the USA.

The USA and European countries have "mixed" economies. They just have a little more government in the mix, along with capitalism.

They are NOT "extreme Socialist" and the USA is not pure Capitalism, either.