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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Just remember that the great peace in Europe came after 1815 and the Congress of Vienna, an agreement which kept the peace in Europe for a century.
This peace was made by men - conservatives all - who understood that not all desires of people could be met. Some had to be discomforted that the general welfare might be secured.
Wasn't it better that a few be unhappy than that the world be plunged into the madness and evil that has plagued it since the end of WWI?

Crimes are wrongs; more specifically they are a recognition of wrongs. Almost no one before the 20th Century recognized population transfer as a crime, any more than society recognized salvery as a crime during antiquity.

Of course, it is desirable that races, ethnic groups, and tribes live together in harmony. This ideal situation is not now the case, nor is it likely to be the case anytime soon. It is foolish to think otherwise.
Peaceful (and democratic) multi-ethnic and racial states are the exception - an extraordinary exception, some would argue - in history.
Is it not better that groups be separated than for the population to endure an endless series of violence and retaliation?
Separation of ethnic groups may be unfortunate, but I've come to the conclusion that those who believe otherwise have spent too much time watching Star Trek.

No one reading history can but come to the conclusion that in every period some group will be dissatisfied with its lot. At this point in history, the Palestinian Arabs are one of the dissatisfied groups. At a future time, some other group will feel it is being ground down.
It is not evil to feel this way, but simply a recognition that no all desires can be satisfied at the same time; this recogniton is a component of maturity.

I did not say that rights come at the sufferance of government. I am a believer in natural rights, but I am not so foolish as to believe that I can enjoy my rights without the power of the state to protect me and them from the predations of a hostile world.
I believe in self-defense. That is why I own a firearm, but I realize that others can do the same. And since I do not wish to spend my time violently protecting my rights, I (for the moment) trust in the police power of the state to act on my behalf.
58 posted on 08/31/2004 8:50:39 AM PDT by quadrant
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To: quadrant

The Congress of Vienna established a peace without population transfers, and without a vengeful treatment of France, which was even left with some of its illgotten gains of the Napoleonic wars in Alsace and Lorraine. It is in fact the exact opposite of what occured 100 years later at Versailles.

You are right about the greatness of the men involved, starting with Metternich.

I would remind you that he represented a peaceful Catholic State, Austria, which then encompassed many nationalities and which did not suffer from the nationality problem until it embraked on ill-advised adventures in Bosnia. The world would be a much better place had Austria-Hungary been left intact in 1919.

Some examples of other states where different ethnic groups have coexisted in harmony - Finland (Swedish minority), Switzerland (French and Italian minorities), Poland (Ukranian and Lithuanian minorities).

There was no real nationality problem in Europe until the French Revolutionary period and the subsequent Romantic period.


60 posted on 08/31/2004 9:17:53 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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