After Decades, Renewed War on Old Conflict

Washington Post ^ | 08/27/04 | Michael Dobbs

[Pikamax]

After Decades, Renewed War on Old Conflict

By Michael Dobbs Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, August 28, 2004; Page A01

After a coin toss to decide which decorated Vietnam War veteran would speak first, talk show host Dick Cavett invited his guests to debate the issue that had divided America. The tall, long-haired veteran with the big jaw denounced the war as immoral. His clean-cut rival spoke of patriotism and sacrifice.

More than three decades after their 1971 debate, John F. Kerry and John E. O'Neill are back at it. This time around, however, Kerry is running for president, and O'Neill has become one of his most prominent detractors.

For the past few weeks, long-standing presidential campaign themes such as the economy, health care and even the war in Iraq have been effectively overwhelmed by angry charges and countercharges about what Kerry did, or did not do, in a conflict that more than one eligible voter in three is too young to remember.

Now, O'Neill and his supporters from the political advocacy group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are focusing their efforts on the Massachusetts senator's antiwar activities after he returned from Vietnam. Earlier this week, they released a new television ad accusing Kerry of "betraying" his comrades and "dishonoring" his country by making false accusations that many of them had committed war crimes.

[Timmy]

For example, he described North Vietnamese Communist leader Ho Chi Minh as "the George Washington of Vietnam."

The Swiftvets should make commercial #4 about his pro-communist sympathies (Paris and Nicaragua) and include this quote.

[sonofatpatcher2]

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Donate to Swift Boat Vets for the Truth HERE.

[Frank_2001]

I agree 100%! We need to keep getting the truth out about this twit!

[NYCVirago]

Kerry has already backed away from some of his more inflammatory antiwar statements and an earlier claim that he was not present at a meeting that debated a proposal to assassinate government officials and take over the Statue of Liberty.

Notice how this is buried in the middle of the article. When did the MSM bother to ackknowledge this before?

[neverdem]

For example, he described North Vietnamese Communist leader Ho Chi Minh as "the George Washington of Vietnam."

How about an analogy by Michael Moore to Iraqi and Arab terrorists to the Minutemen?

[neverdem]

According to historian Gerald Nicosia, whose "Home to War" is the authoritative account of the movement, VVAW was becoming increasingly divided by 1971.

IIRC, Drudge relayed months ago the story of Gerald Nicosia's home being burglarized this year. Nicosia said that selected files he kept as original sources on Kerry and the VVAW were missing.

The FBI kept careful tabs on the protesters through a network of informers, who tracked Kerry's movements. The FBI records help to disprove a long-standing claim by Kerry that he resigned from the VVAW leadership in the summer of 1971, before the organization began to flirt with proposals for radical civil disobedience and even violence.

The FBI records show that Kerry was present for a particularly contentious meeting in Kansas City, Mo., in November 1971, at which plans were discussed for the assassination or kidnapping of government officials or the takeover of the Statue of Liberty. The proposal was overwhelmingly voted down, and the files record that Kerry wanted VVAW "to stay strictly non-violent." According to the FBI files, he resigned from the organization in Kansas City after an angry showdown with radicals led by a firebrand named Al Hubbard.

Wasn't Al Hubbard exposed as a fraud who never served in Vietnam?

"There was no way he would have forgotten about being in Kansas City," said Nicosia, who is generally sympathetic to Kerry.

Former VVAW Kansas state coordinator John Musgrave, who served with the Marines in Vietnam, expressed extreme doubt about Kerry's stated recollection. "He had a tremendous confrontation with Hubbard at that meeting. How can he claim not to have any memory of it?"

Discussing political assassinations and taking over the Statue of Liberty probably could only be forgotten by being simultaneously intoxicated. It doesn't pass the smell test.

[neverdem]

Check some of these links.

[Travis McGee]

Bob Dornan tonight on H&C said that he followed Kerry and Co. around the Mall for 8 hours, and has lots of film of him. There may be film of Kerry near where VVAWs were burning and pissing on American flags, with VC and NV flags flying. This must be giving Kerry the sweats. If such film exists, and is being saved for the final days.....

[neverdem]

I saw the H & C segment. Dornan was quite animated, to say the least, and quite prepared with all the flags!

I wonder if Pat Caddell(sp?) has a new contract with FNC. I'm used to seeing as a Matthew's talking head.

[NYCVirago]

Check some of these links.

Yeah, I'm aware of the story about this, but I'm surpised to see the WaPost finally report it.

[MARTIAL MONK]

These events were some of the most photographed occurances of all time. The evidence is out there somewhere. Thousands of pictures were published in various periodicals at the time. I remember poring over the pictures and wondering just what kind of people these were. I was young but I had never met or been around people like that. I did not believe the stories about returning GIs being spit on. Americans just could not and would not do that.

I think someone thumbing through an old Time or Life is going to find what Kerry doesn't want anyone to see.

[conservative in nyc]

The FBI records show that Kerry was present for a particularly contentious meeting in Kansas City, Mo., in November 1971, at which plans were discussed for the assassination or kidnapping of government officials or the takeover of the Statue of Liberty. The proposal was overwhelmingly voted down, and the files record that Kerry wanted VVAW "to stay strictly non-violent."

VVAW ultimately DID take over the Statue of Liberty in late December 1971. It's in the FBI files on wintersoldier.com, near the end of the file here.

[Use It Or Lose It]

This must be giving Kerry the sweats.

Just look at the RATfest from a few weeks ago. Kerry was sweating like a pig. 'Twas just a matter of time...

[TheGeezer]

Dobbs fails to mention that much of the testimony of the "Winter Soldiers" was discredited, that many of those testifying had not been in Vietnam or were not even veterans, and that all of them avoided helping efforts to prosecute war crime perpetrators. Kerry joined in the lies of enemies of the United States to defeat its forces in Vietnam, all to advance Kerry's political career.

[Bob]

Wasn't Al Hubbard exposed as a fraud who never served in Vietnam?

He was clearly a fraud.

He claimed to have been an Air Force officer, a pilot who was wounded in Vietnam. He was actually a sergeant. He was in supply, if I recall the story correctly.

While I'm not 100% certain of it, I don't believe he was ever stationed in Vietnam.

[faithincowboys]

The Nixon people will have really let me down if they didn't surreptitiously tape it. This guy did so much that disqualifies him--it's not even funny.

[Roscoe Karns]

bump

[SteveH]

What are the details on the admission by Kerry or his campaign that he was in fact at the 1971 KC meeting?

[neverdem]

Thanks for the update, I was on my second tour at the time.