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Imagine receiving 100% of your paycheck!
townhall.com ^ | August 27, 2004 | Neal Boortz

Posted on 08/26/2004 11:05:33 PM PDT by n-tres-ted

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To: Protagoras
The price of my new car, golf clubs and other things. Let me guess,,,they will cost less,,,right?

WHere did you get that?

Things are gonna cost about the same...

201 posted on 08/27/2004 12:00:08 PM PDT by Principled
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To: n-tres-ted

Its fun to think about the "what-ifs" of this kind of tax scheme. How would our lives change?

First, the government wants it because it generates a one-time acceleration of tax collection, and a tax increase! A huge fraction of our economy is conducted via debt, in other words, purchases of goods and services with income NOT YET EARNED (the tax pull ahead). Pay the tax on the purchase, and it is collected well before the earning takes place, EVEN IF THE DEBTOR GOES BANKRUPT AND DEFAULTS ON THE LOAN (the tax increase), and never earns the "income". You are now taxed according to what you can borrow! If the government loved having people in debt before, you ain't seen nothin' yet!

Which leads us to:

Second, the banks and credit card issuers have to love it! A 23% increase in every purchase translates into a rapid rise in credit balances, as people think their increased take-home income allows them to consume at the same rate. Higher balances equal higher interest payments, as we pay interest ON THE TAXES WE PAID! This will do much more than offset the small administrative cost of sneding the money to the feds.

And a third: travel outside the country will represent consumption outside the tax jurisdiction. (Today the US taxes your income no matter where in the world it was earned.) So Congress will move to create all manner of charges for foreign travel, calling it "taxing the rich."

Come on now, you all can think of lots of fun things about this tax, can't you?


202 posted on 08/27/2004 12:02:49 PM PDT by motor_racer
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To: carenot
The ones in retail do.
I'm just tellin' ya what the Texas Comptroller said. I think she might have a better idea, though.
203 posted on 08/27/2004 12:04:25 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: patriot_wes; john_virtue

Consumption is more stable and predictable than income anyway if you're looking for stability.


204 posted on 08/27/2004 12:04:50 PM PDT by Principled
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To: Principled
WHere did you get that?

It was a question. It was based on the claims of countless posters on these threads over the past few years.

Things are gonna cost about the same...

LOL,,,another prognosticator heard from.

Got next weeks lotto numbers too?

205 posted on 08/27/2004 12:06:44 PM PDT by Protagoras (" I believe that's the role of the federal government, to help people"...GWB, 7-23-04)
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
=No Socratic method intended. It was that dang post/preview button being close!

Anyway, nobody will discount anything.

I don't see any reason for prices to change. Why do you think there's any reason for prices to change?

206 posted on 08/27/2004 12:08:07 PM PDT by Principled
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To: ETERNAL WARMING

Bad plan. The problem with tariffs is two-fold. 1, counter tarriffs can be enacted killing our exports. 2, foriegners don't pay tariffs, the American consumer does with higher prices.


207 posted on 08/27/2004 12:12:52 PM PDT by Melas
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To: Your Nightmare
I wonder how much the IRS costs?
I mean all the stuff they do?

Would it amount to 1 or 2 billion?

Whatever it costs would be saved by NRST.

208 posted on 08/27/2004 12:13:21 PM PDT by carenot (Proud member of The Flying Skillet Brigade)
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To: Protagoras; Principled
LOL,,,another prognosticator heard from.
Principled, why don't you tell Protagoras where this mythical 22% drop in prices comes from?
209 posted on 08/27/2004 12:13:28 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: n-tres-ted

Okay, here's another one:

How does this tax change affect the feds interest in controlling the borders? On one hand, they will absolutely want to stop all smuggling of OTHERWISE LEGAL goods, which represent a loss of tax revenue. On the other, illegal drugs, weapons, and other black market items can't be taxed anyway, because there is no legal sale, so who cares?

As for illegal aliens, hey, they spend money here so bring 'em in!!


210 posted on 08/27/2004 12:13:59 PM PDT by motor_racer
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To: carenot
I wonder how much the IRS costs? ... Whatever it costs would be saved by NRST.
The current plan will pay both the states and businesses 0.25% of what they collect for their efforts (0.5% total). That would have been ~$44 billion last year.
211 posted on 08/27/2004 12:17:07 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: motor_racer
On the other, illegal drugs, weapons, and other black market items can't be taxed anyway, because there is no legal sale, so who cares?

They will be taxed when the spend their money at the store and when they buy their fancy cars.

212 posted on 08/27/2004 12:20:08 PM PDT by carenot (Proud member of The Flying Skillet Brigade)
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To: Your Nightmare; Protagoras
While it is obvious that foreign made goods will not be affected in the same way as US goods, foreign made goods will still be affected.

It is the case now that imports are subsidized via tax rebates of one form or another to remove tax costs from them, making them more competitive here.
It is also the case that US goods are being anti-subsidized (is that a word?) with the penalty of included taxes...meaning importers can increase their price with no loss of market share to the extent that prices of domestic goods are inflated.

Importers have a double-tax advantage now.

Under the nrst, importers will have to pay the nrst, eliminating part of their advantage due to their tax subsidies of the home country.
And to help domestic business, US goods will become cheaper overseas by the amount of previously included taxes.

Import prices are unlikely to change - if they go up, that means that a very profitable market will be shrunk.

JMHO

213 posted on 08/27/2004 12:20:17 PM PDT by Principled
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To: CSM
the foriegn producers are not selling for the lowest possible cost today, they are selling just cheap enough to undercut their competitors prices. If their competitor lowers prices, they will be forced to do the same or sacrifice their competitive advantage.

bears repeating

214 posted on 08/27/2004 12:23:37 PM PDT by Principled
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To: carenot

Sorry, bad math. It would cost ~$9 billion to pay the states and businesses to administer the NRST.


215 posted on 08/27/2004 12:23:46 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: Principled
I don't see any reason for prices to change. Why do you think there's any reason for prices to change?

Isn't an across-the-board price decrease in the neighborhood of 20% a major assumption of the Fair Tax initiative?

216 posted on 08/27/2004 12:25:07 PM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: carenot
They will be taxed when the spend their money at the store and when they buy their fancy cars.

You missed the point, and actually helped to make mine. The feds interest at the border will be driven by the need to protect tax revenue, not to protect us. Whether the contraband be human or drugs, the rationale that you suggest - "the money gets spent, so it gets taxed" is a danger.

217 posted on 08/27/2004 12:29:06 PM PDT by motor_racer
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To: Hemingway's Ghost

The cost to produce them has gone down, just as you expect, however the liscencing fees and residuals have gone up, therefore the cost remaining constant is normal.


218 posted on 08/27/2004 12:29:24 PM PDT by CSM (To spread the wealth the liberal is willing, he'll take YOUR dollar and keep his shilling. -albertp)
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To: Principled

Most of the studies I have read state that, due to exchange rate adjustments, any change in the trade balance would be very short term.


219 posted on 08/27/2004 12:29:49 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: phil_will1

My state of residence is not based entirely on their tax structure, but it is a major contribution to the cost of living considerations when I am offered an opportunity to relocate. In addition, if I lived in California, I would love the opportunity to have escaped the imposed slavery the dems brought the residents.

Thanks for the clarification as to it being an encouragement, not a requirement. Now, is that encouragement the same style as the "encouraged" max speed limits or seat belt laws or BAC%?


220 posted on 08/27/2004 12:34:03 PM PDT by CSM (To spread the wealth the liberal is willing, he'll take YOUR dollar and keep his shilling. -albertp)
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