Posted on 08/25/2004 4:47:21 PM PDT by kezekiel
WASHINGTON - The chief critic of John Kerry (news - web sites)'s military record told President Nixon in 1971 that he had been in Cambodia in a swift boat during the Vietnam War — a claim at odds with his recent statements that he was not.
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"I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border," said John E. O'Neill in a conversation that was taped by the former president's secret recording system. The tape is stored at the National Archives in College Park, Md.
In an interview with The Associated Press on Wednesday, O'Neill did not dispute what he said to Nixon, but insisted he was never actually in Cambodia.
"I think I made it very clear that I was on the border, which is exactly where I was for three months. I was about 100 yards from Cambodia," O'Neill said in clarifying the June 16, 1971, conversation with Nixon.
Chad Clanton, a spokesman for the Democratic presidential candidate, said the tape "is just the latest in a long line of lies and false statements from a group trying to smear John Kerry's military service. Again, they're being proven liars with their own words. It's time for President Bush (news - web sites) to stand up and specifically condemn this smear."
O'Neill served in Vietnam from 1969-70 and says in a recent book that he took command of Kerry's swift boat after the future Massachusetts senator returned home from the war.
O'Neill has emerged as a leading figure in the attacks on Kerry's war record. He is co-author of "Unfit for Command," which accuses Kerry of lying about his record, and is a member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which has aired two television commercials harshly critical of Kerry.
In the book, O'Neill wrote that Kerry's accounts of having been in Cambodia on Christmas Eve of 1968 "are complete lies."
"... Kerry was never ordered into Cambodia by anyone and would have been court-martialed had he gone there," he wrote. O'Neill wrote that the Navy positioned its own craft along the border area to make sure no American vessels strayed across the border from Vietnam.
In an interview Sunday on ABC's "This Week" O'Neill said: "Our boats didn't go north of, only slightly north of Sedek," which he said was about 50 miles from the Cambodian border.
Kerry's campaign has acknowledged that he may not have been in Cambodia on Christmas Eve of 1968, as he has previously stated. The campaign says Kerry does recall being on patrol along the Cambodia-Vietnam border on that date, although it's unclear if he crossed into Cambodia.
Referring to the tape of the Oval Office meeting with Nixon, O'Neill criticized Kerry for making claims, including in the Senate, that he was in Cambodia.
"I've never represented on the floor of the Senate, or told people 50 times like John Kerry did that I was in Cambodia. That never happened. And I don't think he was ever there either," O'Neill said.
The snippet of taped conversation surfaced after more than a week of controversy surrounding claims that Kerry lied about his actions in a war in which he won five military medals. The Democrat and his allies have vigorously attacked such claims as a smear, laboring to undermine the charges as well as cast doubt on the men who are making them.
For his part, Kerry accused the swift boat group of being a "front group" that was doing Bush's dirty work.
The Bush campaign denies any involvement with Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
The Kerry side is very afraid of something. You can smell the fear. Oh, they talk a big game but it's grand theatre. They are scared of something. Like Cleland and his "letter" today. That's a desperate move.
Anyone notice that Bill Clinton is not even in the US right now? Remember old Bill? We could not keep the fool off of TV whenever anything happend or when nothing was happening. Kerry is (is?) spinning towards the ground and Bill is not even available for comment. Hmmm.
Perception counts, people. We can tear up this story in a thousand ways here on FR but this won't stop the lie from spreading into the mainstream press like raw sewage into a swimming pool. We need to come out strong against this falsehood or risk our message getting drowned out!!
Huh??
O'Neill is apparently claiming he lied to Nixon. Awful.
The damage to Kerry has been done, and will continue to be done.
Yes of course. This had taken a life of its own, since Kerry has handled it so poorly. I just typed a rather long post on the matter, with a lot of "why" questions in it, mostly with the help of a radio talk show host, who has quite a talent for knowing how to get to the heart of the matter, and go for the jugular. He should have been a lawyer.
Well, sure, you can sue anybody for anything. In fact, you can even sue yourself. See the California case of Lodi v. Lodi. The question is, will you be doing anything more than wasting your time and money. In the case of suing anyone for libel where the person suing has made himself a public figure [as Kerry and O'Neill both have], and the suit is about the truth or falsity respecting a matter of public importance, it is damn near impossible for that person to prevail.
The threat of law suits for libel gets thrown around all over the place [reminds me of what John Wayne said in True Grit, when Kim Darby mentions, for the umpteenth time, the name of her lawyer, J. Noble Dagget "She draws him like a gun."].
It ain't an option. Under the prevailing rule, set forth in New York Times v. Sullivan, there's not a ghost of a chance that Kerry would prevail against O'Neill [and O'Neill knows it-- making the "sue me for libel" challenge a mere taunt] and not a ghost of a chance that O'Neill would prevail against a reporter or headlline writer based on the "Lied" headline. In England, it would be easier, but not in the US.
See my reply to No. 123. Yes, you can sue for libel. YOu can also fabricate a cloth doll of the Defendant and stick pins in it and mumble incantations - much cheaper, and equally effective. When you are dealing with a public figure respecting a topic of public importance, y0u will not win a libel suit.
But Kerry's several iterations of his Christmas-in-Cambodia tall tale -- on the floor of the Senate in 1986, and to the WaPo in June '03-- ooohhh no, no lie there.
I assume that at some point Kerry will have to tell us yet again, where he was when in Cambodia. I can't imagine we can get to election day without that question being posed to Kerry - in his face - up close and personal.
I don't know what you think you heard (or read), but I never heard O'Neill say he "lied" to Nixon.
What I did hear him say was that he corrected himself in the next sentence -- stating that he was patrolling along the Cambodia border.
O'Neill further explained that there are two separate venues being talked about here: First, the Mekong Delta area with its waterways; and second, an entirely different area known as "Bernique's Creek," that runs along the Cambodian border and IIRC down to Ha Tien on the Gulf of Thailand.
Boats such as Kerry's, patrolling the Mekong waterways, said O'Neill, did not go much farther north than Sa Dec, about 50 miles distant from the Cambodian border. This is where Kerry REALLY spent Christmas of '68.
However, on Bernique's Creek, O'Neill's boat was patrolling right along the Cambodian border. This is the context of which he was speaking to Nixon.
The tape as quoted says he told Nixon he was "in" Cambodia (more of that "near" versus "in" thingie, which is odd since apparently the swift boats could not navigate up the river into Cambodia, because it was blockaded. I am not sure this one can be salvaged, unless you as you suggest, O'Neill revised and extended his remarks to Nixon. A transcript would help.
For the sake of argument: Let's say O'Neill lied about this. Kerry lied about it, too. And only one of them is running for President. So how wouldn't this help Kerry? The media is creating a non-story. It's okay for a presidential candidate to lie as long as someone else who isn't running for president also lied? Is that what we are supposed to get from this?
So your comment was wrong. O'Neill has a colorable claim for libel based on the headline writer recklessly calling him a liar even though the article itself nowhere mentions that he lied about anything.
They couldn't enter Cambodia through the blockaded Mekong waterways.
However, Bernique's Creek (see post 131) runs along the Cambodia/Vietnam border.
O'Neill's comment to Nixon was in reference to his patrols along Bernique's Creek.
You da man. Thanks.
I was thinking, Ickes is a lot closer to Hillary than he is to Kerry, right?
I wonder if she and Ickes could pull something that would help her and do damage to Kerry?
I think perhaps it's to test the FEC and see how far Ickes can push. If you're familiar with him, he's as crooked as a dog's leg and I need not go into it in detail. But what Ickes is about is bringin in the cash and maintaining deniability. That man doesn't care if it's the USSC asking him a question, if he doesn't want to answer it, he'll tell them to FO. He's corrupt beyond the wildest imagination and entwined with organized crime. I guess his sole purpose is to shred CFR with impunity and rally the DNC to ratchet things up to a less honorable scorched earth MO in preparation for the DNC warchest for 2005/6/7.
How this man is allowed to wander or associate with public officials is beyond me. Even unions under his legal control had to give up their internal management and let the feds take over as part of his plea bargaining to criminal charges. And now that's who runs the Kerry Campaign???????? Disgusting!
Doubt if anyone would have prosecuted him at that time, but yes, the whole story is nothing but BS.
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