Posted on 08/24/2004 11:49:52 AM PDT by Stultis
OREGON CITY -- The clash between Vietnam veterans over Sen. John Kerry and critics of his war record heated up several degrees Monday as a group of vets called on a Clackamas County deputy prosecutor to resign.
"He's hurt a lot, a lot of people," Don Stewart, one of the organizers of a rally on the Main Street steps of the county courthouse, said of Alfred French. "It opens up a lot of wounds. . . . This is personal."
Stewart of Oregon City and Don Kirsch of Canby drew about 45 people to a rally to criticize French, a senior deputy district attorney who said in an affidavit that Kerry lied about his service record. French later admitted his sworn statements were based on the accounts of others.
French's comments have been used in anti-Kerry ads by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group of Vietnam veterans who have said the Democratic presidential candidate lied about or exaggerated his actions during Swift boat river duty in 1969.
The ad campaign has become a national issue, and French's admission to The Oregonian last week that his signed affidavit was not based on personal observations raised the emotional level of the veterans-versus-veterans debate in Oregon.
Respect for combat veterans
French was wrong "to disrespect fellow combat veterans," said Kirsch, 51, a disabled Marine veteran, who said he still has nightmares of his service.
John Prescott, an Army veteran who lives in the Canby area and attended the protest, criticized the anti-Kerry ads and what he called "a small group rewriting history in such a negative way."
His concerns, he said, have led him to become active in Veterans for Kerry.
Stewart, 58, a Navy veteran, estimated that the courthouse event included about 30 veterans that he and Kirsch had contacted.
During the rally, Stewart read a letter he and Kirsch wrote in which they tell French he should resign because he has lost the trust of county residents.
"We question your fitness to serve as an enforcer of the law after swearing to facts in a legal affidavit that you do not know to be true," they wrote.
They urged others during the rally to join them in signing. Stewart later said about 60 people have done so.
Kirsch said French has a right to criticize Kerry "as a concerned veteran" but should not have signed a sworn statement based on secondhand information. "He's told lies and hearsay evidence," Kirsch said.
French did not return a telephone message asking for comment.
District attorney defends rights
John S. Foote, Clackamas County district attorney, said in a printed statement that he personally disagrees with French's viewpoint, but that "all of our employees have the right to their own opinions" and to express those opinions on their own time.
Foote, who said the office had received numerous angry calls and e-mails -- many demanding that French be fired -- reiterated that French has "earned a reputation as a trusted and respected member of the office."
He added, "Sometimes good people just honestly disagree."
Dan Hortsch: 503-221-8223; danhortsch@news.oregonian.com
news stories and political ads..
spellcheck....
Actually, you beat me to it.
I'm 50, and the draft was abolished while I was still in high school. (I think they still drew the numbers - mine was 8 - afterwards.)
It is possible, but with all the fake veterans running around, I would like some proof.
Now wait a minute.
I just heard Bob Kerrey calling the Swifties liars because they accused John Kerry of testifying under oath that US forces had massacred civilians, tortured, and mutilated them. Kerrey's excuse was that Kerry was only repeating something he had heard while attending a meeting.
Turn about is fair play I say.
Thanks for the info...but I have another question:
Were Americans being sent to Viet Nam after 1/21/69? If not, then the youngest a person having served would have to be 52 years old now(if they were 17 on 1/20/69).
Does this seem correct?
I need my sock drawer organized also.
I don't know when the withdrawal began, but the last US troops left on March 29, 1973, according to one link I found through Google.
article: "French later admitted his sworn statements were based on the accounts of others. French's comments have been used in anti-Kerry ads by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group of Vietnam veterans who have said the Democratic presidential candidate lied about or exaggerated his actions during Swift boat river duty in 1969."The reporting seems unambiguous. This is hardly the first reporting on this single Swiftie and his account. Other reporting bears this out. This article merely focuses on the organized backlash against a single weakness in the account of a single Swiftie.
Yes, but I can only attest to the Army. I enlisted in November of '69 after highschool, and was discharged in Aug'72.
Movements into the country were still occurring as units rotated out until I was discharged, but had almost completely ceased by aug of 72.
I suspect that some were deployed after that, but the scale was small and was not noticeable. I never saw it. All the movement I saw was back to the world. They were giving us early outs, and I took one to go to college.
I am 54.
Swift Veterans Letter to John Kerry Tuesday, May 04 2004 @ 10:00 PM PDT Senator Kerry, We write from our common heritage as veterans of duty aboard Swift Boats in the Vietnam War. Indeed, you should note that a substantial number of those men who served directly with you during your four month tour in Vietnam have signed this letter.
It is our collective judgment that, upon your return from Vietnam, you grossly and knowingly distorted the conduct of the American soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen of that war (including a betrayal of many of us, without regard for the danger your actions caused us). Further, we believe that you have withheld and/or distorted material facts as to your own conduct in this war.
We believe you continue this conduct today, albeit by changing from an anti-war to a "war hero" status. You now seek to clad yourself in the very medals that you disdainfully threw away in the early years of your political career. In the process, we believe you continue a deception as to your own conduct through such tactics as the disclosure of only carefully screened portions of your military records. Both then and now, we have concluded that you have deceived the public, and in the process have betrayed honorable men, to further your personal political goals.
Your conduct is such as to raise substantive concerns as to your honesty and your ability to serve, as you currently seek, as Commander-in-Chief of the military services.
It is vital that the American public have as much information as possible about candidates for President of the United States. In various ways, you have rightly called upon President Bush to be fully accountable and to provide full disclosure. In the same spirit, now that you are the presumptive nominee of your Party, we believe it is incumbent upon you to make your total military record open to the American people.
Specifically, we the undersigned formally request that you authorize the Department of the Navy to independently release your military records (through your execution of Standard Form 180), complete and unaltered, including your military medical records. Further, we call upon you to correct the misconceptions your campaign seeks to create as to your conduct while in Vietnam. Permit the American public the opportunity to assess your military performance upon the record, and not upon campaign rhetoric.
Senator Kerry, we were there. We know the truth. We have been silent long enough. The stakes are too great, not only for America in general but, most importantly, for those who have followed us into service in Iraq and Afghanistan. We call upon you to provide a full, accurate accounting of your conduct in Vietnam.
Respectfully,
Daniel Aguilar, OSC, USNR-R Pat Alexander Roy Alexander* Robert Anderson, EN2, USN (Ret.) Kenneth J. Andrews, Lt.* Arturo Arias, QM2, USN (Ret.) Daniel V. Armstrong, BM2* Douglas Armstrong, Capt., USN (Ret.) Harry Ball, Cdr., USN (Ret.) Ray Lewis Ballew* Sonny Barber, USN (Ret.) John Bare Alexander Bass* George "M." Bates* Richard Beers* Paul L. Bennett, Cdr., USN* Edward J. “Lord Mort” Bergin, Capt., USNR (Ret.)* Henry “Buddy” Berman, QM2* Herb Blume, Lt. Barry Bogart, EN2* Bob Bolger Cdr., USN* (Ret.) M.T. Boone* Benny Booth David Borden* Carl Bowman Vern Boyd* David M. Bradley, LCdr.* Robert Bradley, Lt. USNR - inactive Robert “Friar Tuck” Brant, Cdr. USN (Ret.)* Kenneth Briggs* Carlyle J. Brown, EN2* Donald Brown, RD3 Kenneth "Buck" Buchholz, GMM3* Michael C. Burton Tom Burton Joe Cahill, Jr., Lt.* Jack L. Carlson, Lt., USNR* James Carter Billy Carwile, EN3* Virgil Chambers, RD3 Jack Chenoweth, Capt., USNR, (Ret.)* William Colgan, RD3* Bill Collins* Daniel K. Corbett, Lt., USNR* James M. Corrigan, QM3* Terry Cosstello, Capt., USN (Ret.)* Tom Costarino Toi Dang, GM3 John H. Davis, Lt.* William K. Daybert,Cdr.* James Deal* Richard Dodson, Capt., USN (Ret.) John Dooley, Cdr., USN (Ret.)* Dale Duffield, CWO USN (Ret.)* Robert G. Elder, Lt.* George M. Elliott, Capt. USNR (Ret.)* Bill Eshelman Claude Farmer, Cdr., USNR (Ret.) Michael Fasold William Ferris, Capt., USNR (Ret.) Wallace Benjamin Foreman, QM1, USN (Ret.)* William T. Ferris, Capt. USNR (Ret.)* James Foster, GMG1, USN (Ret.) William E. Franke, Lt.jg* Robert L. Franson, BMCS (SW)* Alfred J. French, III, Capt., JAGC, USNR (Ret.)* Paul F. Fulcomer, RD3* Ray Fuller, GMG3* Steve Fulton, Cdr., USN (Ret.)* Mike Gann, Capt., USNR (Ret.)* Steve Gardner* Bill Garlow* Les Garrett* Tony Gisclair, BOSN2* Robert Gnau, QM2* Donald Goldberg* Morton Golde, Cdr. USN (Ret.)* Kenneth Golden* Gerald L. Good, Lt. USN* Roy Graham John C. Graves* Charles E. Green, ENCM, USN (Ret.)* Dennis L. Green, GMG* H.C. Griffin, Jr., Lt. USNR* I.B.S. (Boyd) Groves, Jr.* Charles R. Grutzius, Capt. USNR (Ret.)* F.L. Skip "Mustang Sally" Gunther, Lt. USN* Bill Halpin, Lt. USNR (Ret.)* Don C. Hammer, Lt.* Rock Harmon* Keith C. Harris, RD2* Stewart M. Harris, Lt., USN* Stirlin Harris, BM2* Gene Hart, RD3* Bob Hastings* Curt Hatler* John Hecker, RD3* Chuck Herman, RD3* Raul Herrera* Tom Herritage* Grant "Skip" Hibbard* Bill Hickey Rocky Hildreth* Gary Hite Jim Hoffmann, RD3 Roy Hoffmann, Adm., USN (Ret.)* William P. Holden, Capt., USN (Ret.)* Wayland Holloway, Lt. USNR* Duane Holman, QM2 Robert Hooke, Lt.* Bill Hoole Andy Horne* John Howell* Warren Hudson* Charles W. Hunt, EN3* Robert Hunt* Gail E. "Ike" Ikerd, Cdr. (Ret.)* Bert Jeffries, QM3 Richard Jenkins John Paul Jones, QM3* Tom Jones* Eddie Kajioka ENCS, USN (Ret.)* John L. Kipp, Cdr., USN (Ret.)* Thomas H. Klemash* Kenneth Knipple, EN1* Robert Koger, QM2* Mike Kovanen, RD3* Bob Kreyer, GMG2* Jack K. Lane, GMG3* William T. Langham* William Lannom* Alan Lapat Joseph R. Lavoie, II CWO2 (BOSN), USN (Ret.)* Louis Letson, LCdr., USN (Ret.)* Jim Madden, RD3* William S. Mann, Jr., Lt.jg* Jim Marohn, GMG3* Douglas Martin, Lt. USNR* Tom Mason, Lt.* Donald Matras, EN2 (Ret.)* Thomas Mason, Lt.* Louis Masterson* Donald Matras, EN3 Richard McFarland, Lt. USNR* Kenneth B. McGhee* James McNeal, ENC* Errol Meleander, Cdr., USN (Ret.)* Jack Merkley, Lt.* James M. Miller* John Miller, ENC (Ret.) Martin Miller, ENC (Ret.)* Marc Milligan, GMG2* Benjamin A. Montoya, QM3* Edward Morgan, Capt. USN* Edgar (Ed) M. Morrill, Jr.* Tom Morrill, EN3* Wayne H. Moser* Kurt Moss, Lt. J.G.* Frank Mueller* Marc Milligan, GMG2* Ed Mundy* Van Odell, GMG1 Richard Olsen, Lt.* Richard O'Mara, RD2, USN John O'Neill, Lt., USN, (Ret.)* Albert Owens* Tedd Peck, Capt. USNR (Ret.)* Richard Pees, Lt., USNR James Penkert, ENC Thomas Petersik Robert Phalen, GMG2* Charles Plumley* Joseph L. Ponder, GMG-2, USN (Ret.)* Chuck Rabel* Bob Reller Steve Renfro, RD3, USN (Ret.) Frank Rockwell Bill Rogers, Lt.* Patrick Sage GMG3* Gary W. Sallee, BM2* Burke Salsi, RD2 Joe Sandoval, GMG3* Jimmy W. Sanford, RD3* Robert Scattergood* Jim Schneider, EN2* Clair J. (Pete) Schrodt, Capt. USN (Ret.)* Jack Shamley* Patrick Sheedy, Cdr., USN (Ret.)* Paul Shepherd, QM2* Robert B. Shirley, Lt.jg* William Shumadine* Stanley G. Simonson, GMG2* John Singleton, ENC Darryl Skuce, GMG2* John J. Skura* Gerald H. Smith* Bob Smith, GMG2 Gerald Smith Roy Smith* B. Tony Snesko BM2* Mike Solhaug* Dennis Spranger Jack Spratt, LCDR* David R. Stefferud, Capt., USN (Ret.)* James Steffes* Fred E. Stith, USN (Ret.)* Lawrence Stoneberg, Lt. USN (Ret.)* Weymouth Symmes, RDM* Tony Taylor W.P. "Sonny" Taylor* Dewey Thedford James P. Thomas* Eldon Thompson, Lt.jg* Larry Thurlow, Lt.jg Joseph Timmons, RD3, USN Charles R. Tinstman, ENC* Gary E. Townsend* William F. Trainer* Michael Turley, BM2* Chris J. Vedborg, RD3* Jeffrey M. Wainscott, Lt.jg* David Wallace* Greg Ward, EN2* Larry J. “Waz” Wasikowski, Cdr. U.S. Naval Reserve* Pete Webster* Robert T. Wedge, Jr., QM1, USN (Ret.)* Steven Weekley, GMG, QM3* George Wendell, En1, USN (Ret.) Bruce Wentworth, Lt., USNR George H. White, II* R. Shelton White, Lt.* Gary K. Whittington, EN3* James D. Wiggins* Tom Wilkins Thomas A. Withey, Lt.* Bernard Wolff* Thomas W. Wright, Cdr., USN (Ret.)* John Wyatt, GMG* John Yeoman, Lt.* Ex Officio (other military): Ross Barker, Capt. USN (Ret.) Joe Cantrell, Lt.jg, USNR Allan Clapp, ETR3, USN George Clatterbuck, CMSgt. USAF, Ret. Tony DeLuna David Desiderio, Cdr., USCG (Ret.) Verne DeWitt, MR1 Jim Fitzgerald Monte Gluck Don Higgins Larry Hobson Robert Johnson Walter Jones, USMC Adrian Lonsdale, Capt., USCG (Ret.) David P. Marion, CPT Infantry, US Army* Larry Meyer* Benjamin A. Montoya, QM3* Denny O'Brien Cordelia Ogrinz, in memory of her brother Alexander J. Ogrinz, III, Lt.* Rex Rectanus, VADM, USN (Ret.)* Skip Ridley* Jennings Rogerson II, Capt. USMC* (Ret.) John Slagle, Special agent, USBP (Ret.) Patrick Stevenson, Army Special Forces (Ret.) Emmett Tidd, Vice Admiral, USN, (Ret.)* Steve Watts, Army Dennis D. Willess, EN3, Army Infantry* Raymond Wroten, SSgt., USMC (Ret.) James M. Zumwalt in memory of Elmo Zumwalt, Sr. and Elmo Zumwalt, Jr, his father and brother* ---------- * = signed original letter, presented May 4, 2004 0 comments -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/article.php?story=20040629220813790
Just more attacks on a truthful vet.
I'll ask again - Do you have a link to his affidavit or any quotes from it?
Do you know that he attested to his being there or are you relying on a newspaper account of what's in his affidavit?
You make some pretty bold assertions about his committing perjury but you haven't backed any of them up yet.
Isn't this about the time the liberals would be whining about a "chill wind blowing"?
If by source, you mean this article, then it's obvious to me that this is a very partisanly written article.
Post #21 preserved words from some other source.
Until we see the statement/affidavit, then we really don't know what was said, do we? All we have is partisan spin....
In what Court were false affidavits filed?
Clinton put his hand on the bible and swore to tell the truth this gentleman merely supports the statements of his companions with qualifications expressed. I am sure he would be willing to do the same in Court and be examined.
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