Stone Age Columbus - Questions And Answers

BBC ^ | 8-22-2004 | BBC

[blam]

GGG Ping.

[FairOpinion]

GGG PING

[blam]

Immigrants From The Other Side (Clovis Is Solutrean)

[blam]

Iberia, Not Siberia

[Sam Cree]

read later

[NicknamedBob]

It seems likely that Solutrean people found their way to North America about 20,000 years ago, as described. And that many waves of immigrants from Asia came the other way.

One might question why little archeological evidence remains of their exploits. Two reasons may be advanced. First, that their lifestyle, adapted to extracting resources from the sea, tended to have little impact on the land and its creatures. These people were not likely to have been the ones who caused mass extinctions.

The second reason was touched upon in the above article, that many of their settlements and artifacts are now under water. It is clear that the sea was lower for considerable periods of time by the observation of underwater stalactites in Caribbean caves.

I find it ironic, and oddly satisfying, to consider that the so-called European ancestors did not cause wildlife extinctions, but the sainted and fabled "red men" from the East may have lived less gently on the land than modern conservationists wish to believe.

[Graymatter]

pingety-ping!
Stone Age mariners rock :)

[Drammach]

Great article, and same with the attendant links..

Some very interesting arguments made on both sides, all of it educational..
The continental shelf undoubtedly contains a wealth of information on ice age and pre ice age habitation, and would most probably settle the issue once and for all...

I actually found it logical that pre clovis would spread along the southeast to the gulf, and eventually to the southwest, before moving northward..
I don't understand this as an argument against the Solutrian immigration...
With climate as a factor, the southern U.S. would have been much more hospitable, coastal / maritime activities available, and, as the Ice Age ended, the retreat of glaciation would have been followed by the culture's expansion northward..

This stuff is great... Thanks..

[Ironclad]

All matters relating to this time were resolved and exposed by Robert E. Howard, in a truly epic research project spanning several decades, culminating in a number of popular books. In order to make the subject matter more palatable for the general public he fictionalized certain aspects of his research. Conan and Sonja probably didn't exist per se, but Howard's books give considerable insight into this ancient civilization. :)

[Drammach]

GMTA !!! ( great minds think alike )

I was thinking how this could be evidence of the pictish civilization, that Howard wrote about..
Overpowered by the Celts, they eventually disappeared.. to America??

Likewise, tales of the Fairy folk, or Shea, sailing westward to a mythical land, never to return..

I know it's just fantasizing, but having read "Bran Mac Morn", and every single "Conan" story ever written, Howard's tales are sometimes more convincing than reality..
( suspension of disbelief ) Yep, that's me, alright..

[SunkenCiv]

thanks blam!

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.

[Fedora]

Conan of Cimmeria:

Mitra's girdle! I don't know these wizards' fancy talk, but if they doubt my sword is real, I'll teach them a history lesson they won't soon forget, by Crom!

[The Scourge of Yazid]

Oh man, how did I know you'd find a way to make a comic book reference on this thread?

Thanos:

Thanos is not amused, puny Earthling. THANOS IS NEVER AMUSED!!!

-good times, G.J.P. (Jr.)

[ForGod'sSake]

Alrighty then. For some of my more learned colleagues: This piece sort of addresses a question that's been on my mind for some time. The Beringia(sp) land bridge has been marketed as the likely boulevard(between the ice sheets) for the earliest settlers to western/northwestern N. America. Why so, when traveling on or near the edge of ice sheets would seem natural to men who lived their lives on or near the edge(no pun intended)? Is it too much of a stretch to believe that Man can and will travel and explore, for whatever reasons, regardless of the difficulties involved?

Does anyone else suspect the bone diggers may turn up homonid related evidence in the Americas that would indicate humanlike inhabitants going back tens of thousands of years? Could most of the evidence be underwater and therefore difficult to find traces of the few landlubbers that ventured from the nest?

FGS

[Drammach]

Try doing a Google search :

Search terms.. " Ice Age Sea Level "..

Take a look at some of the links, including those referring to "global warming"..

You will find maps / graphics showing what was the projected amount of additional land mass on the american eastern seaboard, western europe seaboard, southeast asian land bridge, siberian land bridge..

It's very hard to imagine the amount of available land that is now under as much as 450 feet of seawater.. until you see the graphics..

I think we will eventually find that climatic variations allowed for variations in the glacial coverage numerous times during the last ice age cycle..
Sometimes more, sometimes less..

We have historical precedent.. 1,000 years ago, the early norse explorers left greenland and went NORTH along the greenland coast, before heading west to america..
We were in a warming trend at the time.. it was warmer then than it is now.. ( planetary average-wise )
500 -600 years later, earth was hit with a mini-ice-age.. we're still coming out of that.. and we have seen, in our own lifetime, that on a year to year basis, and decade to decade, climatic changes can take place on a regional basis, as well as more locally..

Ice age travellers would have been those already familiar with the environment, like the Innuit.. Kayakers, seal hunters, ice floe riders, fishermen..
Following the advice of some ancient Sam Kinnison, they would have "gone where the food is"...
Seems logical that some families, following herds of seal, sea life migrations, etc., would occassionaly follow to the west.. to america.
Logically, (Jim) they would find better climates to the south, work their way into the gulf, and spread westward along the more temperate areas of the north american continent..
With the retreat of the glaciers, new hunting grounds would open up to the north..
With the opening of the Beringian passage(s), new game would arrive from the north.. hunters and their families would naturally head for the source of that game..

Another personal surmise of mine is that the Mandan may have been descendants of some of those original western travellers..
The Mandan were once the largest "native american" nation on the continent, populating the vast majority of the midwest.. numbering in at least the 10's of millions..
They populated the Mississippi and Missouri River valleys, from the gulf all the way to Montana..
Smallpox wiped them out, leaving less than 1,000 survivors of the Mandan nation..
The survivors were eventually adopted into the Sioux nation..

I'm wandering now, the Mandan are a sore point with me..
I'm done ranting..

[Drammach]

Ever read the "last" of the Conan books?
He leaves his kingdom to his son and heads west, ending up in Central America..
Ends up killing the feathered serpent, Quetzequatl..

Just as much fun was working my way through the Tarzan series, which contains maybe 30, 35 books..
Tarzan In Pellucidar still works.. ( last of the series )

[blam]

Yes.

[blam]

Here's a map of the world with the water level reduced by a little over 300 ft.

[Nowhere Man]

Bump for later reading