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Vietnam Vet for Kerry: No Evidence for Cambodia Claim
NewsMax ^ | 8/22/04 | Carl Limbacher et al

Posted on 08/22/2004 10:57:11 AM PDT by pookie18

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To: marron
Had Kerry's boat crossed the line in hot pursuit it would not change anything. Kerry's story was that Nixon lied, and his proof was that he was "dispatched" to Cambodia with the president's knowledge.

But Kerry's boat-mates said no, we spent Christmas at Ka Sec. So he changed the story to say that they left Ka Sec headed for the border... but Nixon wasn't president on Christmas of '68, so now they say that it wasn't Christmas, it was some other date.

He claimed that he was inserting special forces into Cambodia, but veterans have pointed out that special forces didn't use swift boats for insertion. So now the story is that, maybe, it was hot pursuit. But hot pursuit doesn't fit his claims before Congress that Nixon lied.

And both stories have the unfortunate feature that they remind us that our guys were not allowed to cross the border after the enemy, who was allowed safe haven by self-inflicted policy that allowed the enemy to cross borders our guys coudn't cross. By his complaint he accepts that limitation as legitimate, and violations of it by Green Beret as illegitimate. Nixon eventually ended that policy, and sent the army across to deny the enemy safe haven, an action that Kerry supporters to this day consider to be criminal.

 

Although the Democrats nominated Hubert Humphrey, Johnson's choice as his successor, Johnson's absence from the convention suggested his weakening grip on the party. Many former supporters of McCarthy and Kennedy refused to support Humphrey, while George Wallace gained much support as a third-party candidate. In November, Humphrey lost to the Republican candidate, Richard M. Nixon, a result regarded as an expression of public disapproval of the Johnson administration.

Although Johnson halted the bombing of North Vietnam entirely on November 1, the Paris peace talks made no significant progress. Furthermore, the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in August 1968 helped frustrate the president's hopes for a summit meeting to deal with arms reduction and other problems. Johnson left office on Jan. 20, 1969, with his hopes for world peace unrealized.

 

Election of 1968

Eugene McCarthy announced candidacy Jan. 3, due to prolonged Vietnam war, youth movement

New Hampshire primary Mar. 12 - 10,000 students "Neat and Clean for Gene" 42% for McCarthy, 49% for LBJ

Oregon primary May 28 - Robert Kennedy challenged McCarthy, but killed June 4

LBJ withdrew March 31

Hubert Humphrey nominated at Democratic National Convention in Chicago that abolished the traditional unit rule, allowed stronger minority participation, Julian Bond led Georgia delegates, Lester Maddox walked out

convention crippled by violence, "police riot" at Lincoln Park - 1, Chicago 7 arrested

Nixon and Spiro Agnew (from Maryland, the first "suburban" national candidate) nominated by Republican National Convention, claimed to represent the "Silent Majority" and promised law and order, national unity, end the war

George Wallace and American Independent party took votes from Nixon, would get 9.9 votes, largest 3rd party vote since LaFollette in 1924

Nixon won 43.4% popular vote to Humphrey's 42.7% and Wallace's 13.5%

Popular vote was not for Nixon, but against war and social conflict

Democrats kept control of Congress

21 posted on 08/22/2004 12:02:24 PM PDT by pineconeland
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To: pookie18
From SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY 8/16/04 John Hurley, John O'Neill

COMMENT: John Hurley is John Kerry's worst nightmare and Kerry doesn't even realize this. Hurley was actually reading from "official" papers. To wit:

HURLEY:  Well, I certainly know that he deserves it, Joe.  I think the best way to address this is to read directly from the Bronze Star award recommendation that was written on March 23, 1969.  And it says, shortly after starting their exit from the river, a mine detonated under one of the boats, PCF-3, lifting it two feet above the water and wounding everyone onboard. 

Almost simultaneously another mine detonated close aboard PCF-94, that‘s John Kerry‘s boat, knocking first Lieutenant Rassmann into the water and wounding Lieutenant JG Kerry in the right arm.  PCF-51 immediately went to the aid of PCF-3, while PCF-94, Kerry‘s boat, provided cover fire. 

Shortly after that, Lieutenant JG Kerry was informed that he had a man overboard.  He immediately turned his boat around to assist the man in the water who by this time was receiving sniper fire from the river banks.  Lieutenant JG Kerry, from his exposed position on the bow of the boat, managed to pull Lieutenant Rassmann aboard despite the painful wound in his right arm. 

Meanwhile PCF-94 gunners provided accurate suppressing fire.  And the report concludes Lieutenant JG Kerry proved himself to be calm, professional and highly courageous in the face of enemy fire.  What‘s interesting about that Joe is that in addition to those words there, this is witnessed by Del Sandusky and it is signed by Commander George Elliott.  Commander George Elliott is the same man who now says he was one of these swift boat veterans for Bush who says that John Kerry is not entitled to the Bronze Star.  It is specious.  Again, if you go back to every single document that was written and in existence in 1969, they support John Kerry‘s version of what happened there. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And John Hurley, that report that you read, that‘s a United States Navy document?

HURLEY:  It certainly is.  It‘s an award recommendation dated March 23, 1969, pardon me.  It was—the award was recommended by Lieutenant Commander George Elliott and approved by Commander Horn and subsequently approved at a higher level.  The Bronze Star medal was approved.  Now let me tell you what the answer‘s going to be Joe.  Right now Mr. O‘Neill is going to say yes, but it was based on lies.  He does this all the time.  It‘s not based on lies.  It is based on what the United States navy said in 1969. 

(snip)

HURLEY:  Joe, it‘s hard to figure out how to respond.  That‘s so ludicrous, that so defies what is said in these Navy documents.  The Navy documents say a mine detonated under PCF-3.  It says that another mine detonated blowing Rasmussen in the water and injuring John Kerry.  That‘s fact.  That‘s not fiction.  What Mr. O‘Neill is engaging in is fiction.  He‘s trying to recall 35 years after the fact what happened and he‘s doing a terrible job.  He says that there‘s no damage to the boat.  Let me read for you the after action report that is the damage assessment of PCF-94, John Kerry‘s boat, this is the next day back at An Thoi and it says, two starboard and one port main cabinet windows blown out, VRC 46 radio and all remote unit pilot house inoperable,  AC wiring shorted out, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) generator inoperable, steerage control after helm, inoperable.  And it goes on like that.  The boat was unserviceable.  And let me—

O‘NEILL:  Can I respond, Joe, to that point?

HURLEY:  Let me add one other thing.  That is it was John Kerry‘s boat that towed the PCF-3 back to port.  This is just revisionist history Joe.  It makes no sense.  It‘s dishonorable and dishonest.  The United States Navy documents which Mr. O‘Neill ought to accept but disagree with his political agenda because it does not agree with his Republican smear campaign.  He ought to accept what the United States Navy said, what every crewmate that served on those boats with John Kerry had said and he ought to accept it with honor and stop this sham. 

 

COMMENT: If Kerry's boat was unserviceable after the so-called firefight, how did it tow PCF-3 back to port? Now Del Sandusky is a witness? What happened to the Lambert name that they were talking about? Hurley must have dropped some bad acid while he was committing atrocities in Vietnam.

22 posted on 08/22/2004 12:03:21 PM PDT by Use It Or Lose It (How many men died because John Kerry lied?)
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To: marron
" But hot pursuit doesn't fit his claims before Congress that Nixon lied. "

Excellent point. If he went into Cambodia in hot pursuit a short distance at some time, the date doesn't matter, he was not going in becauce he had been sent in on some big secret mission by the President.

I hope the Swiftees and the Fair press keep asking the SKerry camp about Cambodia and see how many versions they can come up with. I have yet to hear anyone say they were with sKerry in Cambodia. Once a liar always doubted.

23 posted on 08/22/2004 12:19:49 PM PDT by lstanle
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To: pookie18

It has already been stated that Swift Boats never operated alone, they went out in groups of 2 to 7 at a time.

Next time they state they were in Cambodia it needs to be asked "what other swift boats were with you when you were in Cambodia?" If they provide an answer it should be easy to debunk it by the SBVFT. If they don't provide an answer it just further erodes their credibility.


24 posted on 08/22/2004 12:21:05 PM PDT by rightvet
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To: Always Right
I always confuse Chirstmas with other days....

Christmas, Haloween, Chief Druid Day its all a blur especially the ones seared in my mind.

I think the REAL question is what controlled substance did he use to do the searing ? Would help us make sense of it all. Its easier to understand a dope fiends rants if you don't pretend they are supposed to makes sense ;-)
25 posted on 08/22/2004 12:23:22 PM PDT by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: coconutt2000
The extra "waaaah" is necessary because the French are more sensitive... ;-)

LOL!! Now THAT'S funny!!!

26 posted on 08/22/2004 1:25:48 PM PDT by upchuck (Well, if I called the wrong number, why did you answer the phone?)
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To: upchuck

27 posted on 08/22/2004 1:26:35 PM PDT by rocklobster11
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To: marron
And both stories have the unfortunate feature that they remind us that our guys were not allowed to cross the border after the enemy, who was allowed safe haven by self-inflicted policy that allowed the enemy to cross borders our guys coudn't cross.

Damn! What does that remind you of? Najaf and street criminal Sadr maybe? Gee, you'd think we would have learned something after all these years.

28 posted on 08/22/2004 1:30:17 PM PDT by upchuck (Well, if I called the wrong number, why did you answer the phone?)
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To: rocklobster11

I like it! I like it! LOL!!


29 posted on 08/22/2004 1:31:36 PM PDT by upchuck (Well, if I called the wrong number, why did you answer the phone?)
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To: pookie18
I just watched the replay of Fox News Sunday. Hurley was horrible. He didn't answer one question asked of him by Chris Wallace. He tap danced around each issue and quickly turned the topic back to Bush. Boy, did they do us a favor when they put him in charge of Vets for Kerry. The guy is way over his head.

I particularly liked it when Chris Wallace pursued the Cambodia question. Chris wouldn't let it die, continually asking if Hurley could name any man who served with Kerry who would say they were in Cambodia at any time. Hurley kept trying to dodge the question, but finally when pressured, he said 'Yes." But when Chris asked him for names, he wouldn't answer. It was beautiful.

Van Odell was awesome. He answered every question, and made some excellent points. He was cool under fire, even when Chris waved official documents in his face. He didn't flinch and came right back with a reasonable answer. I'm glad he brought up the fact that no one that day had received any bullet wounds, nor did any ship take any damage from enemy fire except for PCF3, despite the fact that they were all sitting in a kill zone for at least an hour or more. God! I wanted to kiss him.

30 posted on 08/22/2004 2:35:46 PM PDT by mass55th ( “Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings.”)
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To: pookie18
WALLACE: Well, then let me pursue that. What proof do you have that Kerry was ever five miles inside Cambodia?

HURLEY: John Kerry's word.

And Hurley's still waiting for the fifty bucks Kerry bummed off him Christmas '68 to "buy a pack of Luckys and zippo lighter."

31 posted on 08/22/2004 2:44:31 PM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: Bob
Ooops. kerry was on PCF-44 until January 29 or 30 when he took charge of PCF-94.

yeah, that's why Brinkley has to claim "3 or 4 missions in January and February" for maximum fog effect.

32 posted on 08/22/2004 4:19:43 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy ("Despise not the jester. Often he is the only one speaking the truth")
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To: Always Right
I always confuse Chirstmas with other days....

All of Christmasses? Not only that singular one spent in some SE Asian hellhole with people shooting at you?

33 posted on 08/22/2004 4:24:23 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy ("Despise not the jester. Often he is the only one speaking the truth")
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