Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Vanity Questions
My Fertile Mind | wfu_deacons

Posted on 08/21/2004 1:38:54 PM PDT by wfu_deacons

I have been following the Swift Boat controversy closely and have several questions. I ordered my copy of "Unfit for Command" but have yet to receive it. I graduated from the Naval Academy, served in nuc subs, and retired from the Naval Reserves-- so I have some knowledge of the Navy. These are my questions:

1) I heard Kerry's supporters say that the after action report for March 13, 1969 say PCF-51 (I think) had three bullet holes. The after action report on Kerry's website doesn't say this: http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/SpotReports_March1969.pdf Wher is the documentation for the 3 bullet holes?

2) I read Thurlow's most recent statement that the only enemy fire on March 13, 1969 was the mine that hit PCF-3. The after action report on Kerry's website details damage to his boat supposedly caused by a mine. Since PCF-94 was on the opposite side of the river, it obviously wasn't the same mine. Was there more than one mine? Is there any other CASREPs which detail the damage to PCF-94? It is noted that a repair party was dipatched from the Washtenaw County for PCF-3. Do records from the Washtenaw County include a report of repairs for PCF-94?

3. Why is Kerry's designator blacked out on all the documents? I could understand it being blacked out on messages since the line also includes one's SSN (it appears back then they used one's service number). Kerry was commissioned as an 1105, surface/unresticted line, reserve officer. Did he ever become surface-warfare qualified? His designator would have changed to 1125, I think. How long would it take to become surface warfare qualified on a ship such as Gridley? His fitreps do not indicate he qualified OOD underway, only OOD(I) which I infer is OOD inport.

4) Has anyone from Kerry's camp explained why the BS and SS citations are signed by John Lehman?

5) The message for JFK's Vietnam Service medal says he is entitled to 2 stars. His DD-214 revision, which he did in 2001, says 4 stars. A minor point, but which is it? Is the message only for his Swift Boat service and he also is entitled to 2 awards from Gridley? http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Vietnam_Service_Medal.pdf http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD-215_Correction.pdf

Thanks.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: kerry; swiftboats

1 posted on 08/21/2004 1:38:55 PM PDT by wfu_deacons
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: wfu_deacons

Kerry better say it's OK to release his 180 ASAP from the DOD or he's going to be SOL!


2 posted on 08/21/2004 1:43:44 PM PDT by isthisnickcool (Strategery - "W" plays poker with one hand and chess with the other.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wfu_deacons
2) I read Thurlow's most recent statement that the only enemy fire on March 13, 1969 was the mine that hit PCF-3. The after action report on Kerry's website details damage to his boat supposedly caused by a mine. Since PCF-94 was on the opposite side of the river, it obviously wasn't the same mine. Was there more than one mine? Is there any other CASREPs which detail the damage to PCF-94? It is noted that a repair party was dipatched from the Washtenaw County for PCF-3. Do records from the Washtenaw County include a report of repairs for PCF-94?

He does tell a story about his boat getting "mined hard" once and the crew mascot, a dog named VC, was catapulted out of his boat and landed in one of the other boats. Maybe that happened on March 13, 1969...yup...maybe.

3 posted on 08/21/2004 2:08:35 PM PDT by Jim_Curtis (Liberals lie at the premise, accept their premise and you can only lose the argument.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wfu_deacons
4) Has anyone from Kerry's camp explained why the BS and SS citations are signed by John Lehman?

I don't think KerryCo explained it, but the reason is that they were replacement medals.
It seems the celebrated Mr. K somehow lost his, while on a tourist trip in D.C.

4 posted on 08/21/2004 2:08:59 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Izzy Dunne

"It seems the celebrated Mr. K somehow lost his, while on a tourist trip in D.C."

I've heard that he injured his throwing arm during that trip which has caused a life-long disability; as certain recent pictures affirm.


5 posted on 08/21/2004 2:13:18 PM PDT by Socratic (Yes, there is method in the madness.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: wfu_deacons
1) I heard Kerry's supporters say that the after action report for March 13, 1969 say PCF-51 (I think) had three bullet holes. The after action report on Kerry's website doesn't say this: http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/SpotReports_March1969.pdf Wher is the documentation for the 3 bullet holes?

Ask the New York Slimes. They are the ones who reported this. I assume they got records for PCF-51 from the Naval Archives or something (like the Kerry campaign; that newspaper is Pravda for the Democrats).

2) I read Thurlow's most recent statement that the only enemy fire on March 13, 1969 was the mine that hit PCF-3. The after action report on Kerry's website details damage to his boat supposedly caused by a mine. Since PCF-94 was on the opposite side of the river, it obviously wasn't the same mine. Was there more than one mine? Is there any other CASREPs which detail the damage to PCF-94? It is noted that a repair party was dipatched from the Washtenaw County for PCF-3. Do records from the Washtenaw County include a report of repairs for PCF-94?

There's a damage report for PCF-94 included with Kerry's materials. The listed damage seems fairly substantial to a layman. But there's no proof the damage all occurred that day or with that incident.

BTW --- the after-action report mentions "TWO OTHER MINE EXPLOSIONS OVC RVED". No one --- even Kerry's folks --- has explained what the other mine explosion allegedly was.

3. Why is Kerry's designator blacked out on all the documents? I could understand it being blacked out on messages since the line also includes one's SSN (it appears back then they used one's service number). Kerry was commissioned as an 1105, surface/unresticted line, reserve officer. Did he ever become surface-warfare qualified? His designator would have changed to 1125, I think. How long would it take to become surface warfare qualified on a ship such as Gridley? His fitreps do not indicate he qualified OOD underway, only OOD(I) which I infer is OOD inport.

I don't know.

4) Has anyone from Kerry's camp explained why the BS and SS citations are signed by John Lehman?

Not that I am aware of. Nor has the media asked.

5) The message for JFK's Vietnam Service medal says he is entitled to 2 stars. His DD-214 revision, which he did in 2001, says 4 stars. A minor point, but which is it? Is the message only for his Swift Boat service and he also is entitled to 2 awards from Gridley? http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Vietnam_Service_Medal.pdf http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD-215_Correction.pdf

I think Kerry is so anal about making sure that he got all of his awards to which he was allegedly entitled that he petitioned for the four stars in 2001.
6 posted on 08/21/2004 2:14:58 PM PDT by conservative in nyc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Socratic

Saturation posting and commentary aside, Kerry will never be as much fun to kick around as was Clinton; I'm getting mighty bored.


7 posted on 08/21/2004 2:15:51 PM PDT by Old Professer (If they win, it will be because we've become too soft.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Old Professer

"Kerry will never be as much fun to kick around as was Clinton"

I wish I went back that far but I'm still a relative new comer to FreeRepublic. Those must have been the days! What a target-rich environment.


8 posted on 08/21/2004 2:20:57 PM PDT by Socratic (Yes, there is method in the madness.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: wfu_deacons
I don't have all your answers but I do have some comments regarding this post You said:

2) I read Thurlow's most recent statement that the only enemy fire on March 13, 1969 was the mine that hit PCF-3.

I don't believe Thurlow's account suggests that any boat was sunk due to enemy fire. This is an important distinction that needs to be made. Lets look at recent accounts given by the Kerry campaign itself.

Kerry campaign spokespersons have conflicting accounts of this incident -- the latest one being that Kerry's boat did leave but only briefly and returned under *withering* enemy fire to rescue Mr. Rassmann. However, none of the other boats on the river that day reported enemy fire nor was anyone wounded by small arms action. It appears Kerry's people have gone from their claims of gunfire to "withering" gunfire.

Please do not jump to the false conclusion that the boat was sunk by enemy fire. The only damage on that day was done to boat three -- a result of the underwater mine. That boat was not sunk due to hostile acton .. it was sunk by a mine. A mine doesn't count as hostile fire. And it also doesn't count as bullets flying while during the rescue, which is Kerry's claim.

Further .. Kerry campaign officials are now finally acknowledging that while Kerry's boat left the scene, none of the other boats on the river ever left the damaged swift boat. This is a direct contradiction to previous accounts made by Jim Rassmann in the Oregonian newspaper and a direct contradiction to the "No Man Left Behind" theme during the Democratic National Convention.

9 posted on 08/21/2004 2:26:00 PM PDT by CometBaby
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Izzy Dunne

Replacing lost or tossed medals does not require a new citation, the old one will do just fine.

And as the Vietnam pretenders so easily found out, medals and ribbons are available for purchase without proof of an awarded citation accompanying that purchase.

So once again, sKerry bloviates the reality of his service.


10 posted on 08/21/2004 2:31:47 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1 (Kerry couldn't have gone to Sears in Cambodia Christmas day! They were closed!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: wfu_deacons
Good questions. Re: question 2, I read this today in Swift Boat Accounts Incomplete And Flawed, Clashes Roil Kerry Campaign

At this point, Kerry crew members say their boat was hit by a second explosion. Although Kerry's injury report speaks of a mine that "detonated close aboard PCF-94," helmsman Del Sandusky believes it was more likely a rocket or rocket-propelled grenade, as a mine would have inflicted more damage. Whatever it was, the explosion rammed Kerry into the wall of his pilothouse, injuring his right forearm.

It's not an official explanation, but does show at least two different versions.

11 posted on 08/21/2004 2:36:42 PM PDT by tuesday afternoon (Everything happens for a reason. - 40 and 43)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wfu_deacons
4) Has anyone from Kerry's camp explained why the BS and SS citations are signed by John Lehman?

Kerry had John Lehman re-write the citations. I don't remember why, or I don't know if he has said why.

I think that it is strange to have your citations re-written nearly 20 years after the fact. Was this to make them sound better in his camaign lit?

12 posted on 08/21/2004 3:01:55 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Re-elect Dubya)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wfu_deacons

The reports from the Swift boat vets say that NONE of the boats sustained any bullet holes.


13 posted on 08/21/2004 3:05:30 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Re-elect Dubya)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CometBaby
If I did, I did not mean to imply that PCF-3 was sunk. There seems to me two differences in the stories: 1) the SBVT say there was no automatic weapons or small arms fire from the bank, Kerry says there was, 2) the SBVT say there was one mine, Kerry says there was more than one. The only proof of #1 that I have heard is the 3 holes in PCF-51 but I have not seen an after action report or CASREP. No individual suffered a bullet wound. The only proof of #2 that I have seen is the after action report on Kerry's website which details the damage to PCF-94. There seems to me two ways to prove/disprove the after action report. The first is to see if the repair ship has records to document the repairs to PCF-94 and the second is to see if PCF-94 went back out on a mission before March 18th. March 18th is the date in Kerry's CASREP for the estimated date of repair.

My questions weren't meant to be rhetorical. I'm really looking for answers.

Thanks
14 posted on 08/21/2004 3:14:52 PM PDT by wfu_deacons
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Izzy Dunne

Replaced medals? I read somewhere that medals cannot be replaced. Ribbons, yes. Medals, no. I also saw there were 3, count 'em , three different citations dealing with the Silver Star. One was with Zumwalt's name, a second with another name, and the thrid with Lehman's name. What's going on here?


15 posted on 08/21/2004 3:17:12 PM PDT by SisBoombah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: SisBoombah

Each level of command endorses the award, hence, three citations.


16 posted on 08/21/2004 3:54:28 PM PDT by wfu_deacons
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson