Posted on 08/20/2004 11:59:43 AM PDT by Between the Lines
GREAT FALLS -- About a dozen pagans gathered at Town Hall on Monday to show support for Great Falls resident Darla Wynne. Last week, Wynne returned home from dinner with a friend and discovered one of her parrots had been beheaded and his heart cut out, she said.
A note attached to the back of Little One, Wynne's 8-year-old African gray parrot, said, "You're next!"
"I was frantic looking for his little head, and later I did find his heart," Wynne said tearfully. "They want me to leave this town. I feel so responsible for this. I shouldn't have gone out to dinner."
Great Falls Police Chief Mike Revels confirmed the threatening message to Wynne and said an investigation continues. Police found no evidence of a burglary and were unable to collect fingerprints, Revels said.
"Forensic evidence on the note was destroyed and there was no other physical evidence found," Revels said. "The case is ongoing."
Wynne, a Wiccan high priestess, filed a lawsuit in 2001 against Great Falls for invoking the name of Jesus Christ in council prayers. Federal courts ruled in favor of Wynne, saying the prayers were unconstitutional. Town officials, who have the support of the state attorney general, have appealed the case.
Last week's incident was one of a string of break-ins at Wynne's home. Great Falls police have responded to at least 10 calls of reported vandalism at her residence in the past year or so, Revels said.
"She's had a lot of problems," Revels said. "But we haven't been able to link anybody to any of the incidents."
Many of the town's 2,200 residents regard Wynne as a witch and disapprove of her pagan faith, she said. The vandalism has ranged from destruction of her cars to several of her animals being poisoned, Wynne said.
"No one will say anything," Wynne said. "They think they're protecting their own."
Katie Glenn of Asheville, N.C., said she was in Great Falls on Monday to support Darla and "let everyone know we're human."
"I find it deplorable to see other people, who come in the name of Christianity, judge others so harshly," Glenn said.
Wynne said she has endured numerous verbal and written threats. She received by mail a booklet, "Thou Shalt not Suffer a Witch to Live," and said a man yelled at her, "Witch, you're going down."
Twice last week before her bird was killed, Wynne said she received threats in the mail.
During Monday's Town Council meeting, about a half-dozen supporters gathered with Wynne outside Town Hall. Several more attended the meeting inside. Wynne's friends posted an e-mail about the beheading of her bird and people from both Carolinas, Texas and Detroit came to offer support.
Revels and several uniformed officers attended the meeting to keep everyone safe, the chief said.
Wynne's friend Donna Hudson of Columbia said Wynne has been persecuted by town officials.
"I believe all pagans, basically all Americans, should be concerned about the situation that has developed here," Hudson said. "The very community that should be supporting her is violating her rights."
Mayor H.C. "Speedy" Starnes wouldn't comment directly on the incident, saying only he believed the town still has a strong case.
Wynne said she will continue her court battle and won't leave town. She said she is saddened that her remaining parrot, Baby, is lonely for his companion.
"Birds mimic what they hear," Wynne said. "Baby cries because he's heard me crying and he's lonely for his friend, Little One."
Wiccans like to claim to be something other than the silly counter-cultural product of the 60s that they are, so they have created this entire mythology around their origins. But the associations between Wicca and Druidism is not merely trappings. Wiccans often intensely study Druidic writings and spiritual methods, and claim the Roman presecution of Druids as their own holocaust. They have co-opted the history of what was Druidim, removed anything un-PC, and claimed it as their own.
I have known Wiccans, and ex-witches. I've lived with them. Wicca is witchcraft dressed up in New-Age clothes. And they have told me that the whole white magic vs. dark magic is just a doorway issue to get people used to using magic. All magic use leads to black magic.
"If you hadn't nailed it's feet to the perch, it'd be pushing up daisies."
"It is an EX-PARROT."
"We've got a cat...Simple metal tube through the back of it's neck, and you've got a lovely fish."
You're right. What'd the parrot ever do to deserve that?
That's really interesting. I appreciate your ability to take your previous experiences and make the application to the culture at large, and especially with regard to the made over versions of it that we see in the popular entertainment media.
I agree that it is a gateway. I honestly believe in the concept of evil, though few people could probably be called truly evil. Still, the influence of evil is pernicious, calling for an opposite and equal force for good. These concepts, to some, are antiquated, but opinions never made reality any different.
With all due respect, I disagree.
It's a thing I have read about for years ( old books. Thinga that are YEARS out of print and hard to find) and I have known a lot of different people and seen some very odd things.
I understand that your mileage may vary, and that's okay, because this IS America and we can disagree and still be civil!
How does your perspective differ from Dangus? I've only had one significant interaction with a Wiccan. Would like to know your experiences.
Tx.
> While I can't claim Christians did not do this, I would wait until the police get someone into custody before I'd editorialize about how nasty those Christians are.
If the situation was reversed, and Pagans were suspected of terrorizing a Christian activist... would you remain as uncertain?
So, in your opinion, when someone peacefully petitions a court to decide on the constitutionality of a certain government practice, they should "expect" violent retaliation.
Interesting.
Yep. Asheville's gone from a quaint mountain hub 20 years ago to a flaming metro-homo-lezbo-hippie-pagan-agnositic-counter culture-beatnik haven in such concentration that it broadcasts homing vibes to like minded folk who are attracted and wander in from all over the country.
"So, in your opinion, when someone peacefully petitions a court to decide on the constitutionality of a certain government practice, they should "expect" violent retaliation. Interesting."
Yes. I do not encourage such acts but common sense tells you that if you go against the mores of a community you invite problems. If I go to San Francisco and sue to impose a ban on homosexuality do you for one moment think the 'tolerant' bunch will not assault me on my way out of court? If I push for court decisions aimed at infringing on the expressions of Jews do you think the ADL & JDL will let me live out the month? Not likely. If you kick a hornets' nest and then get stung is it the fault of the hornets?
My point is that this woman picked a fight against Christians in >> South Carolina <<. She's a fool if she thought nothing would come of it. Michael Newdow (the atheist Pledge of Allegiance jerk) had the sense to move from Florida to California where he knew he'd be physically safe to pursue his agenda.
>> If the situation was reversed, and Pagans were suspected of terrorizing a Christian activist... would you remain as uncertain? <<
Any time something bad happens to a Christian, I do not immediately presume it was done by a Wiccan. When it is a crime committed expressly out of hate for a person for being a Christian, I still do not presume it was done by a wiccan. I do not blame wiccans for each and every burnt church, desecrated sanctuary, slandered preist, repression of religion, or stolen nativity-scene Jesus. So what about this story means that a Christian has anything to do with it? The only ties the alleged crime has to the Christian community are her own acts of suppression against Christianity. It's not like someone wrote a note on the bird, saying "this bird died for your sins against Christ." And as I noted, there are plenty of warped Christians who do terrible things, but this just doesn't sound like a Christian wack job's modus operandi.
There are multitudinous groups out there who hate wiccans. And most of them also hate Christians. And most of them see each other as just as big of targets as they see Christians, or Wiccans, or Jews, or Muslims.
So at first I published the expectation that other anti-Wiccan groups whose tactics are a bit more pagan might have done it: neo-nazis, cultists, etc.
But then I learned that this woman is literally a professional victim. Go to Salem, MA, and see the way they hold those crimes against CHRISTIANS as proof of their holocaust. Her sole purpose in life is to establish that Christians are bad people. It is hardly inconceivable that should a tragedy befall her, she would exploit it to attack Christians as SHE HAS DONE HER ENTIRE LIFE.
Sorry, in a world where 99% of the solved abortion "bombings" have turned out to be done by pro-choice activists or the abortionists themselves, I learn not to automatically presume as gospel truth the accusations made by professional victims.
I find it equally deplorable that one would jump to that conclusion with NO evidence.
I think the pagans will be highly embarrassed when they have made a huge stink about the evil Christains and then find out the this was merely some practioners of Santeria exercising their rights to freedom of religion!
Yeah I have a gray named 'Bob'. He says 'shut up stupid' and then belches and says 'sorry!' among other "fun" stuff. No cussing though...
With which claim do you disagree?
One of the reasons i've bristled at the presumption that this *had* to be a Christian was that it just didn't seem like the sort of thing a Christian wack job would do. The offense itself seems just too pagan. And by pagan, I did not specifically mean wiccan. It's just seems against the Christian concept of "dirty." And when I say "dirty," I don't mean "vicious," or "sneaky" or "unfair." I mean unclean.
But one thing I have learned is that unbalanced zealots usually strike at what is uncomfortably close. A person who considers himself Christian, but has had a real bad experience with Wicca, and maybe even faces a very strong temptation for its power, might actually fit this. Whereas a more distant Christian, like myself, might see it echoing Wicca, he or she might have chosen that style specifically because it might be more hurtful.
At first I discounted the "desecration" motivation because it seemed like the offense didn't mimic any wiccan practice that I know of closely enough; stealing the head sounds more mass-murderer than animal sacrifice. But what if it's not meant to be a mockery of paganism (in the way a black mass is a mockery of a mass) (and keep in mind, I mean mockery in a very ancient sense here), but rather it's supposed to be an assault on the logic of paganism.
Think about the way Satan has moved against the Church: not so much by the conduct of black masses. These may be going on, and they may be a tool for desensitizing people, but if they are going on, Satan has tried to keep their presence quiet. No, what has been such the destructive blow to Christianity are strikes against the logic of Christianity: It is practiced as a social function to preserve the faith for future generations. Christianity is counter-cultural in that it teaches sacrficie for children, sexual modesty, and purity. So how does Satan attack Christianity? By sexually defiling children! How would one attack a wiccan?
> How would one attack a wiccan?
Well, I've seen them beaten up. Killing someone's pet in a gruesome manner is hardly new either.
An attack does not need to be some fiendishly clever strategem... a fist in the nose is quite adequate to classify as an attack. Bizarro mutilation of a bird with no particualr logic would do it as well. And while you may not consider head-theft to be something Wicca-related, some dumbass who doesn't like Wiccans might. There is sufficient lack of understanding of "pagans" that many people will believe pretty much anything.
Freep mail me.
> Any time something bad happens to a Christian, I do not immediately presume it was done by a Wiccan.
We're not talking about "any time." This is a fairly specific case, where a Wiccan has been repeatedly hounded by Christians. If a lone Christian was repeatedly hounded by Wiccans in a Wiccan community, and suddenly said Christians pet was slaughtered, would you be so quick to assume it was the Christian behind it?
> her own acts of suppression against Christianity.
What acts are those? A bit of research seems to indicate that she went to the city council to compalin about crack dealers, they found she was a Wiccan, and they spent the next six months apparently singling her out in city council prayers.
http://www.heraldonline.com/front/story/3716081p-3324113c.html
That's harassment, like it or not. She sued to have them stop. How is that "suppressing" Christinaity? You're coming off as a professional victim here, seeing any dispute as an attack against your faith.
> There are multitudinous groups out there who hate wiccans.
Yes, but so what? Here's a woman being harassed for her religious beliefs by one distinct group. Why assume that it was some other, non-involved group?
> this woman is literally a professional victim.
Based on what?
> 99% of the solved abortion "bombings" have turned out to be done by pro-choice activists or the abortionists themselves
You can back that claim up, yes?
This person didn't simply beat a wiccan up. Or even simply kill a pet.
>>An attack does not need to be some fiendishly clever strategem... a fist in the nose is quite adequate to classify as an attack.<<
Hence, the use of a very deliberate strategem is intriguing.
>>And while you may not consider head-theft to be something Wicca-related, some dumbass who doesn't like Wiccans might.<<
No, actually, my point was although it's not something wiccan would do, it's a surprisingly good way to disturb a wiccan. If it's just a random attempt, it's an uncannily good one.
I'm not sure where you're going with this, though. My point was to acknowledge it *could* be a Christian, even though it didn't appear to be one. If you're trying to criticize why I had initially thought it was unlikely to be one, you're off the focus of why I had thought it wasn't one.
for most Wiccans I have met you take away their chocolate.
And "pagan" is one of those terms that gets batted around and is NOT synonymous with "Wiccan".
A person who is a Pipe-Carrier for Elk or Wolf counts as a pagan. So does an Australian first-Man who belives in teh Dream time and talks to his ancesters.
Has NOTHING in common with Wicca.
( and there are several different flavors of THAT!)
And stuff that grew out of the British and European Mystic Lodge tradition.
Soem is good. Some is bad. Some is in-between or just a beer drinking society.
A lot of it is fruit-cakeism.
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