Looks like ole Rassman has been eating well.
Posted on 08/19/2004 3:14:41 PM PDT by dmanLA
My father served in VN, and as an independent, said he will be voting for GWB on Nov. 2. (sometimes, he's more right wing than I am..... and sometimes, he's more liberal.)
What's a 1049 volunteer? I volunteered for the draft so I could pick my induction date. When I got back there was a draft lottery. My birthdate came up in the low 40s.
Let me first thank you for your service. I sincerely appreciate it, as do I sKerry's. However, While the decision to serve is noble, it is not, in and of itself, heroic. Keep in mind that sKerry only volunteered to prevent from being drafted--after his application for a deferment to study en Francois was denied. I seem to recall that he is on the record as saying he did not want to experience combat, that he chose the Navy, and avoided following in his father's footsteps by avoiding aviation, in order to avoid combat. He was looking at three options: be drafted, dodge the draft, or volunteer. The safe and honorable thing for him to do was to volunteer.
He certainly didn't go for the $.
Of course not. One can't reasonably expect to find a billionaire wife in a combat zone.
I refuse to believe he did it for the "fame."
Remember, he was running for the presidency as far back as prep school at least--anyone who knew him knew that because he told everyone that he would be the next JFK. He volunteered for swift boat duty so that he could follow in JFK's footsteps by "commanding" a small boat. When he volunteered, I believe the swifties were limited to coastal duty, but that mission changed to include the inland duties to which sKerry was assigned. I would assume that coastal duty was at least somewhat less hazardous--more open landscape with gooks only on one side of you, as opposed to a more closed landscape with the potential for gooks being all around you. I think there's no question that sKerry made a calculated decision to capitalize on the fame of his service. His exaggerated and fabricated reports, his filming reinactments of his combat exploits (you gotta admit--that's more than a bit bizarre), his flaunting of his medals, and his numerous telling of sea stories since all testify to this.
I'm glad to hear you're not a sKerry supporter. I was thinking you might be one of those paleoliberals. Thanks again for your service--o noble, albeit sometimes illogical, one.
More than likely...
"Did we have a treaty with South Viet Nam, like SEATO or something?"
Something like that, yes.
http://vietnam.vassar.edu/overview.html
He gave CPR to his daughter's rodent, just after he lost the rodent off of his boat, just like he lost Jolly Jim Rassmussen off of his Swift Boat.
Thanks. I'll read through that.
Just the facts. Enough BS.
A.Kerry didn't know Teresa existed in 1968.
B. He did in fact, volunteer. Period. I don't give a damn what his reasons were. Check out why many join the French Foreign Legion. Who knows, who cares. He volunteered. That is a fact.
C.So what if he looked up to JFK? Many did. Cliff Robertson played him on the Big Screen. Idolized by many. I see nothing wrong there. Many joined the Marines and some may have idolized John Wayne. Did it make them any less Marine?
D.These boats were nothing more than RPG magnets. Humvees without tires. They presented a large, crisp target. Safe duty?
Lastly, you pick apart his record based on what you have read here, there, and everywhere. Were you In-Country? A friend of mine has a Harley with a bumper sticker that I dearly love. It simply says,"VIETNAM, IF YOU WEREN'T THERE JUST SHUT THE F UP!"
Army form. Request for Permanent Change of Station. RVN...
I got to Nam the old fashioned way. I was drafted. I've never pretended to be a hero and have no understanding of anyone who would inflate their credentials.
Well yes, it appears Kerry has done just that. But he went...I just have a big problem with everyone from the Dutch-Boy (Chrissy Matthews) who spent his time digging wells for Africans to RUSH trying to pick apart, analyse every action, deed, attributed to Kerry. RUSH rips Kerry. Matthews rips O'Neil. Only thing for certain? Neither RUSH nor Chrissy nor 90% of the other talking-heads ever heard a shot fired in anger...How can one be a mechanic when he has never turned a wrench?
Sorry, the rodent heroics don't count. I'm looking for heroic behavior of his in Vietnam. Although your commentary leads me to vow to always be clipped onto the boat with a safety line if I'm ever on one captained by sKerry.
There is no such thing, Bogey780. To have honor, you have to have guts. Unless you call shooting a fleeing 12 year old in the back makes Kerry have Honor. Also, a true hero is one who doesn't toot his own horn.
We have a few Bush-hating vets as regulars on FR. They always show up on the pro-drug or Libertarian threads.
I turned 18 in 1970. I reported for my Draft Boards, but recieved a deferment on account of a heart condition I was born with. At the time I had a greencard. I moved had to the US in '59. One of my current co-workers did a tour of duty in the Viet Nam. He repaired helicopter avionics. He's about ten years older than I and rather liberal; while, over the years I've become a US citizen and I've voted a straight GOP ticket starting with Reagan. Now, old boys cain't help but tell war stories, and his always have a kind of ag'i'ner bent. He told me once that one of his comrades in arms, a native american, had spit on a medal that was about to be pinned on him. But his most acerbic vitriol is reserved for another soldier he says he knew who put in for his own medals. In fact, my friend asserted that all you needed to do was solicit and you would be awarded any medal you demanded. I thought about all that when all these Kerry NamGate allegations surfaced. Did my friend Jim actually know or hear about Kerry? Was it common knowledge? Was it common practice to venalize the awarding of medals? Personally, I find his whole contrarian worldview mighty depressing so I've distanced myself from him , even though he's above my pay grade and we work in close proximity in the IT education field. But, I sometimes wonder how he would justify voting for Kerry, after having said those things. As I am sure he will. It would seem people of that mind set should find themselves in a quandary over this. But it probably won't amount to much in the end. What a liberal democrat faithful sez or does never really means much, because the end always justifies the means.
Looks like ole Rassman has been eating well.
> Keep in mind that sKerry only volunteered to
> prevent from being drafted ...
Also, word is that when he signed up for swifts, they
were not at that time being used on combat-likely
missions. That changed before his deployment.
By contrast, F-102s were, but were later withdrawn
before GWB would have been sent to VN.
It appears that George and John had exactly opposite
initial expectations of going in harms way when they
signed up. Don't expect the White House or the DNC to
bring this up. Anyone who cares will need to do their
own independent research.
> "VIETNAM, IF YOU WEREN'T THERE JUST SHUT THE F UP!"
Probably explains why we haven't heard from Clinton
on this topic :-)
(apart from the fact that this issue is consistent
with the Clinton plan to let Kerry lose so that
they both retain control of the DNC, and have no
incumbent Dem obstructing Hill in 2008).
I never said that sKerry knew Teresa in 1968. She's not his first billionaire wife (family net worth of ~$0.3B is close enough, don't you think?; especially when inflation adjusted to today's dollars), you know. Whether he knew his first one in '68 or not is immaterial. My guess is that John Boy was already dreaming of marrying into money by then.
I've acknowledged the nobility of sKerry volunteering and serving. Putting the circumstances of his decision to volunteer is relevant because sKerry himself has draped himself in the flag and in his service. (If I have to hear him talk about Old Glory flying over his head as he skippered his swift boat into battle again, I'll gag.) His motives for his actions tell us about his character--or lack thereof.
sKerry's crush on JFK was a bit pathological. He told everyone about it--in prep school, in college, and in the Navy. People who knew him then thought it a bit weird.
I don't question that swift boats on riverine duty was a very hazardous assignment. I've read that the a priori probability of being wounded or killed during a 12-month tour of duty was estimated to be 75%. (I doubt that this included band-aid wounds; including those probably drove the probability close to 100%.)
Yes, my knowledge of sKerry's war exploits does come from reading and listening. No, I wasn't in-country--I'm a tad bit too young. I have to tell you that I don't understand what me being in-country or not has to do with anything. To attempt to discredit me with that argument, or with your buddy's bumper sticker, catches you in another illogical, fallacious use of argumentum ad hominem. Tsk, tsk. But may I at least assume that we're both not voting for sKerry? In that are we not in violent agreement?
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