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To: telebob

if you have to know about iranian military...here my bit from memory

well they have around 500,000 troops with the majority who are conscripted. the regieme is wary of these guys so equipment levels will be questionable.

the revolutionary guards has about 130,000 men. it looks like a division is about 10,000 to 12,000 or less but these are the equivalent of the republican guard division. to behonest, the size of a division is all over the place here..leading to very peculiary lob sides activities i.e. you have to know exactly which division you are deploying as you cant assume anything. they are okay at large scale initial logistics..incidentally something saddam republican guard was also. an example is he moved an entire division from south of mosul to engage the 101st (a very bad mistake as it happens ) before/during the sand storm in the last war. from memory they moved this division in a couple of days..no small feat, considering the air threat. however, they did loose nearly every tank they had in the following 24 hours from apache chopper and air strikes once the sandstorm relaxed..also the 101st nearly wiped this division out on the ground (we were never told the exact iraqi casualty rate, so i suspect it was huge, particularly when the words decimated and 'cease to exist as a force' were used)-- again i do this from memory so if im wrong and named the wrong division-- ..oops sorry).

the revolutionary guards work seperately from the army (but can be incorporated) as they are used as a religious force in case of military coup. one area of weakness is on sustained logistics front i am sure i read somewhere that food and water and ammunition (again from memory) for sustaining large scale operations was terrible in the iran/iraq war...hence the suicide charges against saddam (kids in minefields etc etc etc). I seem to recall they are good at artillery support but that could have been iraq rather then iran)

the weakness of iran is as per iraq. they are very poor on independent battlefield strategy, hence the massacres of troops between iran and iraq. field officers are of questionable authority and are trained to follow a strict command structure. they do not act well indepedently which incidently is an enormous strenght of the US military, worht way more then any battery of cruise missiles. US officers are given an objective but also are given local authority allowing for specific localised decisions depending on circumstances. the iranians worked well in large battlefield groups and would be definitely vulnerable to modern tactics -- typically trained in older USSR field strategies. this lack of independent thought also leads to a dissapation of battlefield strategy as the battle progresses. reminds me of the saying 'everyone has a plan until you get hit'. so once the battle begins yuo could expect a day or so of iranian gains ( only assuming a sneak attack) followed by poor coordination of troops as the fog of war sets in and this mixed with poor medium/long term logisitcal support is a killer blow to front line troops, even allah will put his head in his hands with this one. they will be very vulnerable to coordinated strikes using multipes resources, something again the US military specilaise in. expect huge US problems with prisoners, as in the number to deal with e.g. gulf war 1. expect huge issue with the 72 virgin supply with the death rate....
they do have teams of women trained for suicide runs but that could be propaganda.

they have 2 diesel submarines (however their field of operations is limited) but they should not be underestimated, however they are not field tested. i was not aware as one poster was that they have missile capabilities. they have about 300 choppers of which 100 are classed as attack. please bear in mind, the definition of attack chopper here is an ordinary chopper with rockets...dont think apache. there might be a few exceptions to this where they have acquired some reasonable russian stuff. their training and night fighting capabilities i am unsure of.

they have about 200 fighters (again old ) except for some fairly recent russian stuff (e.g. flanker but thats from memory) quite a bit of old US stock but these have to be vulnerable to spare parts issues. their air tactics are poor. be aware that they also have a couple of squadrons of iraqi fighters from the first gulf war that the iraqis flew there and they refused to return. i think the number is about 70 fighters and they were fairly recent stock from ussr. i also recall that they were not good at dogfighting compared to the iraqis.

they do have a spec ops group -- i suspect they will specilaise is suicide runs. dont think delta (assuming they exist of course ;), or seals), think well armed, reasonably well trained moron...also i suspect a few delta guys are looking for payback as the carter debacle was 'allegdely' one of the first large scale delta missions..again if incorrect apologies..

they do have a fair number of chinese anti ship missiles (the silkwork) the iraqis fired one or two of these at kuwait city you will recall)

most of their equipment is based on 1980's designs (as in production 1980, which really means 1970's) and some latter 1990 stuff, from the USSR mainly. A lot of their US stuff they purchased in the 70's (when the shah was in control) has suffered from a spare parts problem. this incidently has led to a huge illegal trade in used parts as it happens.

they have 2000 or so older tanks. t55 and that class, some old US and UK stock from the shahs time. someone else said here they had developed their own..i was not aware of that. they will use mass formation attacks, similar to the iraqi republican guard...i for one would not like to be one of these guys....again this is the old USSR tactic for taking europe.

they have a lot of 70's russian missile technology. you will hear the familiar drone of the only ground to ground missile that is actually lucky to find and hit the earth..yes the scud is back..they used to lob these at baghdad during the war. i read recently they have developed with n korea and the pakistani scientist shah, how to load, nukes. they probably have some fairly recent chinese missiles as well..

they have a large reserve force of irregular army. would be of little battlefield use, but probably would be used for town defense, a bit like the saddams irrelegulars, fedayeen.

i agree witha previous poster..they will forment (well they are currently) partisan attacks at the rear due to the religious thing. personally the influx of iranians into najaf over the last year has raised my eye brow a time or two and i was very suprised when the support for iraq at the money conference was given in 'tourism'. hmmm tourists from iran...the term 'suuuurrreeee' jumped into my mind with that little beauty.

so if anyone else knows anything more..and if igot some stuff wrong apologies...i typed from memory...hence the spelling LOL!!!


160 posted on 08/19/2004 2:25:18 AM PDT by Irishguy (League of Nations (version 1.1 BETA) currently in user testing...problems reported)
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To: Irishguy

Thanks very much for the info, even from memory. It should be obvious that even though their military assests are expansive, their ability to use them effectively against such American innovations as joint operations and decentralized decision making is limited.

As you note, their command structure is the typical mid eastern top down, make no decision without written approval, cumbersome behemoth that plagues the armies of the region.

Here's hoping for Bush's reelection so we can get on with the business of dismantling the mullahs terror machine.


161 posted on 08/19/2004 10:01:05 AM PDT by telebob
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