Posted on 08/17/2004 2:38:57 PM PDT by unspun
And some sort of reparation for proven decendants of actual slaves has been something I have never really opposed, if there was a way to do it other than direct payments of cash.
I'm happy to see anybody get a tax break, myself.
Then there are those of us whose forefathers fought for the Union. Should we be penalized for the very crime that our ancestors fought AGAINST? That's infuriating.
If reparations (liberal style) ever passes, the very first thing I'll do is organize a "Descendants of Union Vets" group and sue for exemption. And the second thing I'll do is sue an ancient, guilty instituion - the DEMOCRATIC PARTY -- for having defended slavery and thereby sparking the Civil War, leading to my ancestor's "trauma".
I do think that the Keyes idea might have merit though, if only because it may eventually doom ALL income taxes.
Can't he find some grown-ups to work on his campaign?
If someone insisted on cutting my hand off, it would be clever if they did it in one fell swoop, rather than sawing it off, an inch at a time.
You can't be serious, Knotts! Are you actually shifting your opinion on reparations simply because Keyes advances the notion?
This would be true if you're taxes are getting raised to pay for it.
You're still operating through the emotion of jealousy that the Democratics have exploited so well, getting people to believe that tax cuts for other people are bad for them.
This is simply not true. It's the lie the left loves to use to manipulate people, don't fall for it.
Oh, please, Knotts!
Why should non-slaves get reparations of any kind? They've suffered no injustice!!!
True. So if we throw out everybody who's ancestors fought for the Union, everybody who's ancestors weren't even in America during the slave times, and everybody who's ancestors were slaves, what are we left with? Maybe about 10% of people that could conceivably owe the slave decendants a couple bucks?
Any thing that gives this movement even the slightest legitimacy is a mistake.
It's not just that. Definitionally, Keyes' reparation plan does not help the lowest-income black Americans, because they don't pay taxes. So there will have to be some sort of reparations plan for them as well.
The fact is, the federal government allowed slavery for a long time, and it was unjust. But it would also be unjust to simply pay people out of the treasury. A tax break is a more indirect form of reparation which is not as offensive to me. I still think giving government land is better.
The abolition of the income tax will not come out of a plan like this. If anything, it guarantees the income tax has to stay around longer because, otherwise, the "reperations" will be played off as having been a scam on the black community.
I am not impressed with his position, but I do not think it matters.
Exactly. The "burden" on the treasury would be miniscule, while still making a moral statement.
No that'll be true period. Her's the problem, you've got this black family whose tax burden of $1000 for year X is being waved because of the reperations, now there's a proposal to cut taxes, if this proposal passes their tax burden will drop to $750. This will be argued as us devaluing our guilt over slavery, devaluing the attrocities done to these people's ancestors, and the tax cut will fail miserably.
I'm operating with that because the Democrats have used it so effectively, and there isn't any indication that it's going to stop working any time soon.
It is true, with this kind of reperations the money blacks aren't paying in taxes will be the dollar value to our guilt, any move to lower our guilt will be defeated by appeals to emotion. Sure it fails the logic test, but if we could count on the general population to use logic instead of emotion Kerry wouldn't be polling above 10%.
I don't think it's quite as simple as that. I don't buy into all the psychological mumbo-jumbo, but these people have at least some argument that their families were financially damaged. It would be good to put this all to rest, once and for all.
Read what your hero has proposed. He supports race-based tax cuts!
Yes, but do you really think reparations of any sort will ever make it through Congress? I don't. If Keyes were Senator from Ill. he would likely never even cast a vote on the subject. The issue is in the courts. The courts have been and always will be the great undemocratic hope for unpopular liberal ideas. If reparations happen, activist judges will be to blame. Keyes is a non-issue on this subject, imo. His position is revealing, but just not relevant.
"None Dare Call it Pandering"
btw, does anyone know if former FReeper CAL (Connie Hair, Clintonsaliar) is involved in the Keyes campaign this time, as she was in the Presidential campaign?
Seriously, though, I don't mind Keyes putting his particular spin on the reparations issue, like this, pre-remptively. Though I don't think even Baracka would seriously float reparations as a legitimate issue during or after the campaign. Keyes' bringing it up this way, and defining it and historically illuminating it in his own terms is actually a smart move. But if he's going to debate Baracka, he ought to do it in order to WIN, rather than handing Baracka "issues" like this that might actually make him look good to the voters.
So, we should all be jumping for joy that under Keyes' proposal, Allen Iverson and Barry Bonds won't have taxes to pay, while the middle-class whites who pay their salaries via ticket sales do? Gimme a break.
My take: I vehemently oppose reparations on principle. I probably could not support this plan in good conscience. I also think it is brilliant real politik. By making reparations in tax cut form, you create real and long term problems for our political opponents, and real and potentially significant benefits for our side. In addition to the long term encouraging work ethic and the family sructure, reducing dependence on gov't etc, it would create real short term benefits in the form of shaking up the black so-called 'leadership'. I really doubt upper and middle class blacks would tolerate the likes of Reveruhn Zhackson fighting their tax cut. I think we would finally see the black community split the way the white community is....the productive supporting the right, and the parasites supporting the left.
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