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The Death of Canadian Scouting
Intellectual Conservative ^ | 13 August 2004 | Hans Zeiger

Posted on 08/15/2004 9:05:41 AM PDT by BraveMan

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To: gcruse
IOW, yes, you are in favor of discriminating against kids based on a religious test. Is it so hard to say it right out?

I see nothing wrong with a PRIVATE group discriminating on the basis of religion, sex, or any other criteria as far as their membership is concerned. They are private and have the right to preserve their organizational culture by admitting only those who share it.

If a bunch of straights joined a gay group, or a bunch of Gentiles joined a Jewish group, with the viewpoint of taking over the organization and seizing control of organizational assets, for purposes hostile to the original aims of the organizations founders, what would your opinion be?

141 posted on 08/15/2004 12:26:46 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (That which does not kill me had better be able to run away damn fast.)
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To: FreedomPoster
Define "special public privileges".

From San Diego...

... the City's leases under which the Boy Scouts operate their headquarters in city-owned Balboa Park for $1 per year and receive rent-free use of facilities on city-owned property on Fiesta Island.
142 posted on 08/15/2004 12:31:04 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: gcruse
You're absolutely right. And as such, they should get no tax funding or privileged use of public facilities.

By that logic, there should also be no taxpayer support for gay groups, womens groups, and no taxpayer support for things like "historically black colleges".

143 posted on 08/15/2004 12:31:46 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (That which does not kill me had better be able to run away damn fast.)
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To: BraveMan

BTTT!

For the record, I think "atheist" children SHOULD be admitted to the Boy Scouts, for their own good ... exposure to the Scouting program in the company of religious adults and youth could help them to grow out of the delusion of atheism.


144 posted on 08/15/2004 12:34:36 PM PDT by Tax-chick (The fearsome, FReepin' , frumpish, fundamentalist frau ...)
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To: gcruse

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is stopping the atheists, agnostics, wiccans (fill in the blank) from forming their own version of scouting. So go do it.
No different than joing the PGA, or NFL, then showing up with baseball bats, batting helmets etc. You join the BSA, and you must play by their rules, not whatever you want to do as a member.
And if you are offended by this, go pout somewhere else.

SemperFi, USMC. 1970-1981


145 posted on 08/15/2004 12:36:30 PM PDT by Tahoe3002
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To: gcruse
So you not only favor discriminating against kids on the basis of religion, but also having the state take money from nonbelievers to fund organizations to which they are denied entrance?

How about the State's taking money from believers to fund anti-religious organizations, or public school curricula that exclude religion entirely.

Perhaps the solution is to exclude the State from all activities except providing police protection, courts, etc.

146 posted on 08/15/2004 12:38:38 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (That which does not kill me had better be able to run away damn fast.)
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To: elmer fudd
No, but government money spent on Catholic hospitals helps subsidize that religion.

Since they don't discriminate who they will deliver medical service to, everyone is equally able to recoup their portion of the subsidization, though.  If they started proselytizing patients, I'd wonder about the funding...
147 posted on 08/15/2004 12:40:43 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
I've never seen anyone's stream of thought engage in a move like that before.

Really?  You can't tell the difference between boy scouts refusing to allow atheists, and Catholic hospitals treating patients of all creeds?
148 posted on 08/15/2004 12:42:48 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: SauronOfMordor
Gentiles joined a Jewish group

To the extent it is a religious group, I agree with you. But to what extent is the BSA a religious group?  And should taxpayers subsidize religious groups that exclude some of the taxpayers?
149 posted on 08/15/2004 12:46:18 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: SauronOfMordor
Perhaps the solution is to exclude the State from all activities except providing police protection, courts, etc.

Oooh.  I like that.
150 posted on 08/15/2004 12:48:37 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: Morgan's Raider

"On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
And to obey the Scout law.
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake,
and morally straight."

The Canadian version:

On my honour
I promise that I will do my best
To do my duty to God and the Queen
To help other people at all times,
And to carry out the spirit of the Scout Law.


151 posted on 08/15/2004 12:55:50 PM PDT by Grig
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To: skinkinthegrass
"...and Australians????

Yes! Suppose some Australian kids joins a Boy Scout of America troop. Wouldn't it be discriminatory to not let him join? Of course it would only be fair that some meetings would be held "down under." If that were not possible, then you have to admit that they should disband the troop rather than force such hardship on the poor kid.

152 posted on 08/15/2004 12:55:52 PM PDT by Boss_Jim_Gettys (This tagline has been removed under threat of legal action by the DNC and Kerry-Edwards campaign.)
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To: gcruse
Basically, as long as they aren't getting my taxes or special public privileges, they can do what they want.

If they're meeting on public property, then you are one violating their rights based on your discrimination against their religion.

What the hell are "special public priveleges" ? Does that have something to do with Gay Pride parades?

153 posted on 08/15/2004 12:56:12 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe
See #142 for an example.
154 posted on 08/15/2004 1:00:21 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: BraveMan

The picture the article paints is not complete. Scouts Canada has become a very PC group of idiots, but individual troops do not have to share in the idiocy. The sponsor of a troop has the right to set rules such as restricting membership in the troop to only boys, and to set a moral standard for membership in the troop (both for boys and leaders).

My church sponsors the 78th Ottawa Troop. It's all boys, Scout leaders must be practicing church members, we require them to wear the uniform, and the troop is doing well. It's the non-church sponsored troops that are dropping like flies.


155 posted on 08/15/2004 1:01:45 PM PDT by Grig
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To: BraveMan

The picture the article paints is not complete. Scouts Canada has become a very PC group of idiots, but individual troops do not have to share in the idiocy. The sponsor of a troop has the right to set rules such as restricting membership in the troop to only boys, and to set a moral standard for membership in the troop (both for boys and leaders).

My church sponsors the 78th Ottawa Troop. It's all boys, Scout leaders must be practicing church members, we require them to wear the uniform, and the troop is doing well. It's the non-church sponsored troops that are dropping like flies.


156 posted on 08/15/2004 1:01:45 PM PDT by Grig
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To: gcruse

So what? They can use public property for free for all I care.


157 posted on 08/15/2004 1:04:13 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: gcruse

I think it is wrong for a private organization like the hospital to pay for illegal alien treatment with my dollars while charging me full price. They pay little attention to my concept of wrong or right. They simply roll their "feel good
concepts" into my health premiums or property tax bill. I am sure it feels good to you to destroy the great organizations for some "feel good" concepts from some attorney somewhere.


158 posted on 08/15/2004 1:06:56 PM PDT by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: gcruse

Apparently you miss the blaring obvious hipocrisy of your arguement.
What gives you or anyone else the "right' to discriminate against an organization that doesn't conform to your idea of inclusiveness?
Aren't you discriminating?????????
Why shouldn't they be able to use "public" facilities that they also pay taxes for?
Does that mean that if I don't open my house to anyone who wants to come in then I can't use the public roads and other "public" facilities that we all pay taxes for???????
Can I go into any girls locker room or spa because it is illegal to discriminate against me on the basis of gender?
What about stores that discriminate against me on the basis of time? Why can't I go into any store any time of day because to deny me access would be discriminatory against me on whatever basis bothers me?
You are like a person on a patch of ice lighting a fire to stay warm instead of jumping to land.


159 posted on 08/15/2004 1:09:17 PM PDT by chuckwalla (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: Goreknowshowtocheat
I am sure it feels good to you to destroy the great organizations for some "feel good" concepts from some attorney somewhere.

Let every kid in who is physically able.  Heck, you might even convert the atheist kids.  What do you have to lose?  Pride?  Bigotry?
160 posted on 08/15/2004 1:10:03 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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