South Ossetia issues ultimatum to Georgia (Many wars of Georgia)

Russia Journal ^ | August 12, 2004

[RussianConservative]

New dictator, new wars...each one must have some.

[Jeff Head]

Here in the western United States...when you are up in the mountains...you do not poke sticks at old bears. It can be dangerous.

[GeronL]

Never ending wars

[RussianConservative]

How else is he to prove his nationalistic macho but to start wars against minorities Georgians try to exterminate for 13 years?

Actually, after his meeting to Washington with Bush, he suddenly state that he was misinterpretted and did not directly threaten to kill tourists....aka, he finds out that he really is not worth US going to WW3 over...whoops.

[BobS]

The summer of love, all over again.

[GeronL]

The US likes Russia a lot more than Ukraine these days...

actually most Americans probably never heard of Ukraine anyway.

[Grzegorz 246]

Tell me what's the difference between Chechnya and South Ossetia ? For me it's very similar situation.
It seems that it was good for Russian government when Russians wanted to stop rebellion in Chechnya, but it's bad when Georgia wants to stop rebellion in South Ossetia.

[RussianConservative]

Here is a few differences. To begin, no one try to exterminate or Russianize Chechns, which is exactly what Georgians try with all minorities (and loose on all fronts). Further during defact independence, S.Ossessians (many of whom are Christian) never go to Tbilisi and blow up apartments, while invading neighbors to create greater Orthodox Republic of northern Caucus...which, if I must remind you, is exactly what Chechins do. First they invade into Daghistan and exterminate several villages (after they exterminate many minorities and Christians in Chechnya...much of which never even Chechin)...then when Moscow strike back, they blow up apartments, blow up concerts, parades, barracks, buses, trains, etc...oh almost the same, except for all the facts.

[2nd Amendment]

All of the Southern states should rally to support Georgia.

[Grzegorz 246]

First of all I'm not an expert in these matters, but I think that I have bigger knowledge about it than most people on this forum.

"To begin, no one try to exterminate or Russianize Chechns"

Really ? How many people have died in Chechnya in last 10 years ? 200.000 ? 300.000 ? Fortunately now situation in Chechnya is a little better.

"which is exactly what Georgians try with all minorities"

I have never heard about it, so please give me some (objective) source of this information.


"Further during defact independence, S.Ossessians (many of whom are Christian) never go to Tbilisi and blow up apartments, while invading neighbors to create greater Orthodox Republic of northern Caucus...which, if I must remind you, is exactly what Chechins do."

Had Chechen done it before 94 ? Before they were attacked by Russians ? According to my knowledge Chechen started those terrorist attacks in late 90's after thousands of their civilians were killed. Maybe I'm wrong, but give me some proofs If you think that I'm wrong.

"oh almost the same, except for all the facts."

For me reaction of Georgian government is very similar to reaction of Russian government in 94. I hope that result will be better.

[RussianConservative]

Out of population 900,000 (before fighting), 400,000 immigrate out of Chechnya to other areas of Russia.

[RussianConservative]

In Moscow are many Chechins who walk normally around...I was in 2002 in Tbilisi and Abhazia on UN mission...and there is no, not one Abhaz or Ossessian in Tbilisi. The government officials, at least when they get drunk start to talk to us of how they wish to exterminate the monkies in Abhazia.

Further, in Adjambari, the Armenian third of the city, Georgians switch off to electricity and water almost daily. The giant Armenian Orthodox graveyard is plowed up by the Georgian Orthodox Church to build new cathedril and put tourist shops around it. They simply take bulldozers and plow over 500 year old cemetary...when French nazis write shwastica on grave stones of jews, people here scream racist (which too is true). But West's favorite Caucus allies, Georgians, destroy 500 years of graves (graveyard was still used to bury people) they are called great democrats. What a double standard.

There is some differences to you. Peoples die in Chechnya, it happen in any guerrilla war, allow me to remind you that in Vietnam America kill some 3 million Vietnamese. Yes, young Russian soldiers get nervous and such and discipline can break down...why I am pushing for total reworking of Russian military to Western professionalism...but my voice is small...unfortunetly.

When Chechnya become declared independent there live 1.2 million peoples...400 thousand of whom Russians, Georgians, Jews, Armenians...they all quickly flee along with 400k Chechins. When second war start in 1999, 250 k Chechins run from Chechinya. Where do they run? If they fear Russians, one would say they run to Georgia or such...but no, they all run north to Federal troops. They run to camps to get away from own warlords and floods of arabs and turks who come to fight jihad.

[RussianConservative]

RUSSIA DECRIES GEORGIAN THREAT TO BLACK SEA SHIPPING

12.08.2004 | 07:30:43 | Views: 62

Russian Defense Minister Sergi Ivanov, for his part, condemned Saakashvili's statement as "piracy" and "inconsistent with international law.”

RUSSIA DECRIES GEORGIAN THREAT TO BLACK SEA SHIPPING

The Russian Foreign Ministry issued a statement condemning Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili's harsh warning that the Georgian navy will open fire on any vessels that attempt to enter the port at Sukhum, capital of the Republic of Abkhazia, without obtaining prior permission to do so from the Georgian authorities.

Noting that the threat extends to boats bringing Russian tourists on excursions from Sochi to Sukhum, the Russian statement warned that any actions that pose a danger to the health or lives of Russian citizens will be "resolutely rebuffed."

Russian Defense Minister Sergi Ivanov, for his part, condemned Saakashvili's statement as "piracy" and "inconsistent with international law.”

In an interview with Ekho Moskvy, Abkhaz Foreign Minister Igor Akhba said Saakashvili's statement threatens peace throughout the region.
(Agency Caucasus)

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Bu yazýya yorum ekle...

[RussianConservative]

RUSSIA DECRIES GEORGIAN THREAT TO BLACK SEA SHIPPING

12.08.2004 | 07:30:43 | Views: 62

Russian Defense Minister Sergi Ivanov, for his part, condemned Saakashvili's statement as "piracy" and "inconsistent with international law.”

RUSSIA DECRIES GEORGIAN THREAT TO BLACK SEA SHIPPING

The Russian Foreign Ministry issued a statement condemning Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili's harsh warning that the Georgian navy will open fire on any vessels that attempt to enter the port at Sukhum, capital of the Republic of Abkhazia, without obtaining prior permission to do so from the Georgian authorities.

Noting that the threat extends to boats bringing Russian tourists on excursions from Sochi to Sukhum, the Russian statement warned that any actions that pose a danger to the health or lives of Russian citizens will be "resolutely rebuffed."

Russian Defense Minister Sergi Ivanov, for his part, condemned Saakashvili's statement as "piracy" and "inconsistent with international law.”

In an interview with Ekho Moskvy, Abkhaz Foreign Minister Igor Akhba said Saakashvili's statement threatens peace throughout the region.
(Agency Caucasus)

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Bu yazýya yorum ekle...

[Grzegorz 246]

"In Moscow are many Chechins who walk normally around..."

For me It's normal that some Russians citizens walk normally around in Moscow.

"Further, in Adjambari, the Armenian third of the city, Georgians switch off to electricity and water almost daily."

It's common situation also in Tibilisi. Georgia is just a poor country.

"But West's favorite Caucus allies, Georgians, destroy 500 years of graves (graveyard was still used to bury people) they are called great democrats. What a double standard."

I'm not Georgian or Chechen lover, I just have to react when I hear about Russian brave soldiers who are fighting with terrorists in Chechnya and about ugly, horrible Georgians, who want to do the same with Abhazia and South Ossetia. I'm not involved in this conflict and maybe that's why I'm objective.


"When Chechnya become declared independent there live 1.2 million peoples...400 thousand of whom Russians, Georgians, Jews, Armenians...they all quickly flee along with 400k Chechins."

After Chechnya declared independent ? Or maybe when Russia sent soldiers?

[Grzegorz 246]

Abhazia is at least officially part of Georgia. The same Chechnya is at least officially part of Russia.

Do people in Abhazia pay taxes to Georgian budget ? Do Russian tourists pay duty to Georgian budget ?

[RussianConservative]

It's common situation also in Tibilisi. Georgia is just a poor country.

No it is not, not when you drive out of area and each night the lights are on in all other sections but there. I was there, were you?

[RussianConservative]

Russian brave soldiers who are fighting with terrorists in Chechnya and about ugly, horrible Georgians, who want to do the same with Abhazia and South Ossetia.

What you do here is called moral equivalence...very popular in EU...aka EU policy to Israel and Palistine. It is not the same. Abhaz do not blow up things in Georgia. Most just wish to be left to peace, when the Georgians try and exterminate them before. If you want to believe that all sides morally equal...go ahead, I call that fantasy land.

As for Chechnya, you need to do some of that "objective" research, because you know little and show it...but the bias is shown, whether or not you think you act "objective". Oh and I know several Pole mercenaries killed by Russians in Chechnya, along with Catholic Ukranians, Germans and Brits...even Finn or two.

[RussianConservative]

Abhazia has petitioned Russia for unification and that is the wish of all the peoples, and they are not run by warlords or deal with Islamics, since most are Orthodox Christian. Further, unlike Chechnya, Georgians attempt to exterminate them and bar them from migrations.

Here is another one for you, to learn about your future NATO allie: my wife is from Tbilisi. She is half Armenian. Her mother half Russian half Georgian. Under the peace lovers in Georgia, her mother change her last name to Georgian and she and her sister to her mother's name so that they could go to university...because only Georgians allowed in Universities or good jobs, not Armenians or Russians or anyones else.

Maybe to you that is not racism, but if it is not, then what Germans do to Poles is not racism either in WW2.

[Grzegorz 246]

"...my wife is from Tbilisi. She is half Armenian. Her mother half Russian half Georgian."

And maybe that's why you can't be objective.

"Maybe to you that is not racism, but if it is not, then what Germans do to Poles is not racism either in WW2."

Unfortunately I think that our future conversation is pointless.