Posted on 08/11/2004 6:34:48 AM PDT by NYer
Well, at least she is honest.
Now, those who oppose IVF and cherish life so dearly, what would you have me do with my children?
Raise them in the service of the Lord. What a stupid question. Do you think the Church wants to kill them or something?
One IVF cycle for a 39-year-old (as this woman was) who has never borne a child has around a 15% chance of success, and I am being generous.
There is significant research showing that older eggs are more fragile and actually respond less well to the manipulations outside the woman's body. Anecdotally noted is that most women after 40 with successful [own egg] pregnancies conceived naturally. And since this woman's tubes were blocked previously, opening them certainly had an effect on natural conception!
There is nothing immoral about IVF if you make sure to use all your extra embryos or donate them. G-d's first commandment in the Bible is for us to go forth and multiply.
When you spend a lifetime with your child, that one act of sex that preceded him becomes as important as a mote of dust. Adoption is also real and moral parenting.
I'm with you on wacky couples, although there are plenty of them having kids without IVF and you can question motivations there as well. Society is what it is.
I've seen mixed info on the studies...I will say that the IQ argument seems to be pretty much nonsense because of all of the other factors that impact prior to being able to test.
As far as the spontaneous termination of the pregnancies, that still happens quite a bit in IVF cases, whether from failure to implant or other problems doesn't it? It seems the body knows what it's got once it is there and acts accordingly.
Thanks for the info.
So you now run from the obvious implication of your comments, as well as show your ignorance of the genetic components of reproduction, whether in vivo or in vitro. The idea that a low-motility sperm has defective or diminished genetic material is not supported by the science, nor is the chemical selectivity of the egg cell.
As for you last comment, I just don't get it? You put up a post that would obviously insult anyone with IVF children, as well as anyone with less than perfect children, then can't accept a simple rebuke.
Quite true. Based on Genesis 38.9-10.
Masturbation is considered to be up there with bestiality, fellatio, and homosexual/heterosexual sodomy in its specific malice, since it is an equal perversion of the proper use of the sexual organs (normal sexual intercourse with a woman within marriage). It is, unfortauntely, quite a bit more common.
The purposeful ejaculation of semen outside of one's wife's vagina is always a mortal sin.
There is also a special collecting condom for the religious who need to conceive in this way. The "barrier" has been said to be not a barrier by rabbis because the sperm are still going to get to join the egg. It's like a temporary waiting room, LOL.
All embryos are fertilized. Do you mean more than half implanted? Meaning the other half miscarried?
Is it me, or do highly religious people have a disturbing obsession with semen?
Let me ask all of you reading this thread who had biological children: why didn't YOU adopt?
Oh, man, I cannot post the first three lines that sprang to mind, or I'd be banned so quick.
No it means one must be married in order to have sex, and even then there are still immoral acts to be avoided - to whit and primarily, masturbation, consumated male oral sex, anal sex, and all methods of artifical birth control.
Be assured. That can happen. It is up to the parents. It is not safe to put back more than 4 at a time. But you can certainly go back in a year or two and put in the rest. You can also donate them. Embryo donations at every clinic in the USA who does them have long, long waiting lists. It is like prenatal adoption, and the parents are absolutely THRILLED.
How do you not see the utilitarian, Hitlarian implications of such a procedure?
About 75% of pregnancies end before anyone could know that sperm joined egg. Implanting in the uterus is extremely difficult, and most embryos can't achieve it. Also, many embryos have genetic problems that cause them to stop developing in the first couple weeks. No one knew she was pregnant, but she was.
Untrue. Read my post above.
Its one thing to have comitted this sin and repented it, its another to be unrepentant about it, its a third thing to claim one has done nothing wrong by comitting this sin, its a fourth thing to claim the sin was justified out of some greater good to come from it, and it is a fifth thing to positively revel in having comitted this sin as if it was something good.
Most practicing Catholic males who have fallen into this sin in the past are on the first level here. You seem to be up on the fourth or fifth level. That's the difference.
Yes it is wrong. It involves the seperation of conception from sex. It is unnatural. It also probably involved masturbation.
If he wanted to become a father, he certainly could have done so prior to his treatment. He and wife were probably to busy with birth control at the time.
"I think young women and seamen just don't mix, sir"
I'm not Catholic but I agree with this for a simple reason - people are playing God. If God wanted you to have children you'd have them the old fashioned way. There are so many babies and children out there waiting to be adopted that there is no reason not to have children. Moses was adopted. It's not as though God isn't supportive of adoption.
I'll give you the opportunity to read my other posts and those of others on this thread on the topic of implanting all embryos, freezing for saving or donation, etc. before respoding with a venomous post.
I am often guilty myself of typing out a response to an early post without following the thread completely, so I understand.
Words like evil/Nazi/Hitler and, I'll admit, a-hole are thrown out too much in my opinion.
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