Posted on 08/08/2004 10:54:18 AM PDT by areafiftyone
Obviously Richard W's understanding of what "strictly' means is more like most of us think "glossed-over" means.
And group of congessional Medal of Honor winners endored Bush. So what's your point? I believe he's still active and can therefore not be politically proactive.
Patience, please. I just posted my answer.
For those 30 years, kerry was nothing more than a junior senator from Massachusetts. Now that he's running for president, he's in a whole new ball game with completely different job responsibilities. He is the one who's claiming his Vietnam service is a major qualification for the position. He hasn't done that before.
If the charges are false, kerry should release his records and refute them.
Franks came to Rumsfeld wit his plan for the war in Afghanistan and Rumny dismissed it out of hand and wanted something Creative....like a few hundred Special Ops....which were VICTORIOUS....GLORIOUSLY VICTORIOUS!!
Franks told Hannity on air he'd come on the show to announce his endorsement. Franks is just playing up the independant thing to get more people to listen to him. He strongly supports Bush because of the war on terror.
If they "failed" with any message it is as instructors. The current crop of humanity appears to require a professor-surrogate to tell them what exactly they are supposed to think. All that I heard DID make clear things like "I didn't serve on his boat, but I DID serve in his unit" and that swift boats ran missions in groups, not singularly.
O'Dell was being interviewed on Fox and Friends the other morning. Rassman had apparantly been interviewed the night before and claimed O'Dell's memory of how Kerry won "the Silver Star" was flawed by time. O'Dell pointed out it was the Bronze Star, not the Silver Star. I thought that should raise questions as to WHO'S memory is is flawed.
Perhaps they should boil it down to a short soundbyte questionable action/award by Kerry and repeat it to the public at least once an hour. I can't think of any way they can be more "clear". And the media would never cooperate.
"Asked point blank if Kerry was qualified to be Commander-in-Chief, Franks said, "Absolutely."
The Iraq war chief was adressing allegations by Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, a group of Vietnam Veterans who served with Kerry who have chronicled evidence of his misconduct as a swiftboat commander in the new bestselling book, "Unfit for Command."
Gen. Franks said he was proud of being "fiercely independent" in his politics, but he told "This Week" that he's leaning towards supporting President Bush and acknowledged he's in talks with GOP planners for a possible address to the Republican Convention on Aug. 29."
I would think he can probably forget about addressing the convention now. We will see.
Exactly. He says it every few minutes on the campaign trail. HOW IS IT POSSIBLE there is ANYONE who has heard John's "I Are a Vietenam War Hero® so Vote for Me" schtick and possibly wonder why anyone would be impelled to ANSWER that? It is REALLY that hard to figure out?? Kerry opened a lot of wounds.
Even if his VVAW actions had never happened; even if he'd never met illegally with the VNC in France, the American voter is STILL entitled to ask WHAT ABOUT Kerry's 4 months of service 30 years ago qualifies him to be President of the United States, Commander in Chief, leader of the free world. Or we WERE, until this year.
In any case, the ones that interviewed are the spokespeople for the group, if not by mandate then de facto. They speak for the SV for T. It's their responsibility to communicate well.
That Hannity interview wasn't that good, and you are right he sounded tired and fatigued. And that was a very friendly atmosphere.
The most notable bad interview was on Hannity & Colmes where Susan Estrich savaged one vet who didn't even seem sure of where he was. Before those 8 minutes were over, he must have been trailing blood from his recutum.
Bad. Bad. Bad.
I am glad you agree with my point, though. "If they "failed" with any message it is as instructors.
That's pretty much what I said - a failure of communication on their part. Blaming the current crop of humanity for a failure of communication is severely misplaced and counterproductive. It's incumbent on the communicator to persuade, not incumbent on the listeners to be persuaded.
The O'Dell stuff you mention and silver star/bronze star stuff is fine, but it won't resonate with anyone. It actually makes the whole story more muddled to the average viewer.
You are right, the media will never cooperate. That's one issue but I maintain that the vets had to have known that. If they didn't, they are even bigger failures at communication that I thought. Each of the ones interviewed should have been coached and prepped for the combativeness they have found.
It is very clear they weren't. That compromises their communication skills. That impairs their persuasiveness. It's their fault that they weren't prepared for the welcome they got. Good intentions only go so far.
You can't blame the media for being themselves, you can't blame the public either. The vets should have been ready with a compelling story very well told, and coached to deal with the combativness effectively. It is very clear to anyone with an ounce of clairty and clear judgment that they were not.
Colloquially, "they blew it."
The Iraq war chief, who never served one minute with Kerry, was adressing allegations by Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, a group of Vietnam Veterans who served actually did serve with Kerry...
There, that's better.
Franks never served with Kerry.
"For those 30 years, kerry was nothing more than a junior senator from Massachusetts."
Serious charges should have been made to proper authorities and answered at that time in Vietnam, not later.
The matter is raised now because they don't like Kerry's politics. That makes the matter a political choice. They should have made their case in Vietnam. Sort of speak now, or forever hold your peace.
That one I didn't hear.
The problem is these aren't prefessional TV talking heads or politicians. They would need more more than one of them to have this experience in order to be a professional looking spokesman. I say more than one, because exhaustion does tend to set in with the most experience professional after an entire day of combative interviews, even if they're not combined with a DoS attack on your website (O'Nail)
As it is, they're a bunch of Vietnam war heros, as opposed to Vietnam War Hero ® (apparantly, there can be only one) who were there and believe the truth of what they're saying. Like I said, I haven't heard every intervwie. I'd bet good money precious few people have. I can only go by my impressions of those I have heard, and with the exception of O'Neil the other day they were fine. And I give O'Neil a pass because he was having a day none of us should ever have to have.
I agree with you. But that being said, they could have benefitted from a week of coaching on this manner. You can learn a lot in 7 days.
They only get one shot at this.
Oops...missed that when I first replied. In O'Dell's defense, he was forced to abide by time constraints. In other words, they didn't give him a chance to get the last word in. In fact, they jumped in with McCain's comments. O'Dell drew a breath to reply to that....and time was up. For that I blame the Fox crew but and whomever gave them their orders, because there ARE a few Fox bigwigs who are Kerry supporters.
If we put ourselves into the shoes of these Swift Boat Vets, just everyday citizens like us, except for their tour in Vietnam, trying to reveal the truth about Kerry to the rest of us, via a hostile pro-Kerry media, that grills them as though they were terrorists-we'll understand their seeming ineptness. It is the intent of the liberal loving, Kerry idolizing media, to humiliate these genuine heroes and convince us that they are the bad guys -that just isn't so.
Wake up America! These Swiftboat Vets,have long ago suffered more than their share of pain and frustration, served up by the likes of Kerry, Hanoi Jane, the liberal media, and the liberal Democrats. Nothing more than Patriotism,devotion to duty and the sure knowledge that a Kerry Presidency would be a disastor for America, could have caused these gallent men to stand up for truth once again, despite being aware that the inflictors of their past pain, were sure to assault them again.
Those who believe Kerry's goon squad over the Swift Vets, are just not very swift.
Yes, stuff like time constraints do work against them, which is all the more reason they should be coached to be more poised, better communicators, and also know that they HAVE to hit point 1, 2, 3 or whatever in their 8 minutes.
I am being a little hard on these guys, I admit. But when you brazenly challenge the Dem's Presidential nominee, with hundreds of millions of dollars behind his campaign, and a dominant media culture that shills for him, you really have to be ready.
Increasingly it is clear to me that, for whatever reasons, they weren't. I can't let that slide, sorry.
With General Tommy Franks, WYSIWYG. Is Kerry qualified to be the POTUS? Yes, he meets all of the Constitutional criteria, otherwise he couldn't run. That doesn't mean he's the best man for the job. That's up for us to decide, not any one General. I think this is what General Franks is alluding to by saying that Kerry's qualified.
For the THIRD TIME on this thread: THOSE CHARGES HAVE BEEN MADE BY SOME OF THOSE SAME SWIFT BOAT VETERANS FOR 30 YEARS. Due to the political climate, they were ignored.
Now Kerry is running for president based SOLEY UPON THE SAME FOUR MONTHS OF SERVICE THAT SOME OF THOSE SWIFT BOAT VETS HAVE BEEN MAKING CHARGES ABOUT FOR 30 YEARS. THEY'VE BANDED TOGETHER TO TRY, ONE MORE TIME, TO GET THE TRUTH OUT TO THE AMERICAN VOTER - SINCE 'THE PROPER AUTHORITIES' AND THE AMERICAN VOTER IGNORED THEM FOR 30 YEARS PREVIOUS. THIS TIME THEY HAVE EVEN MORE REASON TO DEMAND THEIR VOICES FINALLY BE HEARD. THIS IS ABOUT THE LIVES OF MORE AMERICANS.
IT'S THAT FOUR MONTHS SERVICE, COMBINED WITH HIS SUBSEQUENT YEARS AS A VNC COLLBORATOR THAT WE SHOUL DBE QUESTIONING, SINCE HIS FOUR MONTHS SERVICE ARE WHAT FLIP FLOP WANTS US TO ELECT HIM COMMANDER IN CHIEF FOR.
THIS DID NOT COME OUT OF THE BLUE YEATERDAY AND IT WAS NOT INVENTED BY THE RNC.
Never underestimate the power of a grudge. Those men have knowlingly risked being Winter Soldiered all over again in order to do what they know in their hearts is the right thing. For that nobody has the right to belittle them, not me, not you, not John Kerry, John McCain, Tommy Franks or anyone. I HOPE this time to have made myself clear.
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