IT jobs: US creating 'em, India getting 'em

ECONOMICTIMES.COM ^ | THURSDAY, AUGUST 05, 2004

[glorgau]

Not true here in NY/NJ/CT.

Refer to the "flexible with location" clause above. ;-)

You're right about the network security thing. That and identity management are just starting to be treated in a thorough manner. Consistancy will come later.

[lelio]

I usually stay way clear of job posting that list these first as a requirement without qualification

I see this as stemming from that everyone and their brother went into "computer" in the last 10 years and so HR's deluged (deluded?) with resumes that they can't easily sort through. How does someone that barely understands Outlook sort through a technical resume?

I think the market would be better served if it moved to more of a way of hiring graphic artists. Would you hire one w/o seeing what their actual work looks like and instead relied on a piece of paper from a community college?

Another thing that's not stressed enough is the ability of the applicant to work well with others. How many prima donnas have you had to work with in your career? Doesn't that make going into work a chore? Course there isn't an easy test for that, and it can be hidden for a while. Sort of like Leon's interview in Blade Runner.

[j_tull]

I just got hired after 14 mos. of uncompensated un/under employment. It feels really good.

[duckman]

"Currently, there is a great demand of hi-tech IT jobs in the US."

Not true, can't find any EZTRIEVE work. That's still hi tech isn't it?

[Warren_Piece]

Not true, can't find any EZTRIEVE work. That's still hi tech isn't it?

Well, I'm not too sure about the "hi". The mainframe is slowly evolving into a multi-million dollar data store. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[sweneop]

The above link shows, among other things, a 20 year IT effort for India's first domestically-produced battle tank has had large amounts of trouble, delays, and cost overruns.

hmm, i dont want to bust your bubble here, but sounds like the IT industry in western countries as well.

But hey, the labor for all of those hours was "cheap!"

oh wait, theres a difference.

[Bush2000]

If you follow this sort of thing, you already know that most of the jobs that are being created are low-level, commodity "grunt" positions (ie. programming). Dime a dozen. If you want to protect yourself from the axe, get a solid grounding in software engineering disciplines (Project Management, Software Analysis/Design, SQA Mgr) that aren't easily offshored.

[Willie Green]

If you want to protect yourself from the axe, get a solid grounding in software engineering disciplines (Project Management, Software Analysis/Design, SQA Mgr) that aren't easily offshored.

If it isn't easily offshored, it'll be undermined by flooding the market with immigration.

[RogueIsland]

Employers who look only for certifications are going to get burned big time, too. Everyone knows people whose primary expertise is taking tests.

Oh, yes. I program JAVA for a living. I'm also a Certified Java Programmer. The language trivia covered on the test is not relevant to 98% of what I actually do on a daily basis (sometimes I feel more like a sysop than a developer). Don't get me wrong, you WILL reinforce some good skills when studying for these programming certs, but from my perspective that doesn't necessarily correlate much with the job skills you actually need in a typical IT environment.

As for the Indian phenomenon -- let's just say my place is trying that experiment now. Let's also just say that it's a mixed bag at best. Oh, management loves it because we've now got guys doing 350 hours a month for peanuts! Of course, we haven't actually seen much in the way of useful code out of all that effort, and our lead developer (a better programmer than I could ever be in my dreams) is teetering on the edge of a breakdown from all the hours he's putting in trying to ride herd on these people and fix their crap, but they are cheap, no doubt about that.

[TheFrog]

Ahh, does your boss understand what you do? Mine could not read a line of code to save his life.

[SoDak]

I have the CCNA, as well as AIX System Support, AIX System Administration, and MCSE. I also have a business degree and a sales background. I think my employer likes having a technical person who can still operate in sales mode, so to speak. I have friends, though, who once they managed an MCP, or a CCNA, just assumed they would always be in demand. Cert's are kinda stupid, but if the company pays, I'll collect them. I'm thinking of getting an MBA, to round things out a little, in case I decide to switch to the dark side and pursue management.

[Once-Ler]

Jeezus Green. Is this the best you can do? Post some poorly translated foreign web site to prove how you hate corporate/capitalist America and Dubya? Phfthhh!!!!

[Cronos]

There is no shortage of IT jobs for those that are technically competent, up-to-date with their skills, and flexible with location.

Ah, that's the catch. A lot of folks want a huge paycheck to be an "HTML programmer" (don't laugh, I've acutally seen resumes with folks advertising that) and the job should be next door. If not, then they cry wolf about jobs being outsourced. Typically dim whining

[Cronos]

The above link shows, among other things, a 20 year IT effort for India's first domestically-produced battle tank has had large amounts of trouble, delays, and cost overruns

REad that -- that's because they got the same problem -- scope creep and budget constraints -- as any big project. Seems that when they do get the money to do things they see something new to include so redesign etc. etc.

[meadsjn]

Clicking on the indiatimes.com link to the article brought home a very nasty virus. Don't know what yet, but that computer is fubar.

[KimaraChan]

While it is definitely cheaper to outsource to India, it should also be noted that you get what you pay for. While the Indian workers generally have a MUCH better work ethic than the 20-something clock punchers that want 60k to 100k a year to sit on their butts and watch porn, their quality of work is sub-standard at best. The businesses that want SKILLED labor will always need good, English speaking employees with the experience and education that is currently only available in the US. I predict that the Indian labor fad will pass quickly and the job market will quickly even out, leaving the skilled positions to the Americans, and the vast majority of outsourced Indians doing the crappy call-center work (and anyone who's ever had to endure phone tech support will know exactly what I'm talking about. Let them cuss the Indians out...it's a job that I will happily hand over to foreigners).

[nopardons]

Balogna!

There are more IT jobs now available to Americans,at higher pay,right now,than there have been in the past 3 years!

[Lazamataz]

If it isn't easily offshored, it'll be undermined by flooding the market with immigration.

No matter what, we're all screwed. At all times. There's nothing we can do. We might as well give up. What's the point? We should just slash our wrists. There's no hope. We're dead. We're totally screwed, blued, and tattooed. We cannot compete. There's no hope. We have no future. Woe is us. It's never going to get better. How can we have any hope? Look at how things are going. We've gone from the frying pan into the fire. There's nothing left to do. It's all over but the shouting. Why bother? The fat lady sang. We're all almost dead. There can be no improvement. Our lives are over. It's finished. We tried. We failed. It's pointless. Who cares anyway? It's totally ruined. Why bother? Who can do any better? No one. Our lives are sad and pitiful. There's nothing anyone can do about it. We'll probably get started and mess it up. They're all out to get us. We'll be sabotoged. It cannot work. The fat is in the fire. We thought we could win but we can't. Let's all just give up. Surrender. There is no other option.

[Puddleglum]

My hope is that this India thing will pass and companies will slink back to hiring US workers. There is nothing more faddish than upper management. Hell, they'd all jump off a bridge if one of them did, provided someone had told them it would save a few bucks or 'bump their numbers' for a quarter (or whenever their bonus numbers are calculated).

I think outsourcing to India will bite them in the butt a few years down the road in terms of company value and a quality product, if they have the foresight to ever look ahead that far.

[jb6]

Same with NC. I think they are listing network installation/maintenance (which actually requires a warm body) with software development, which is outsourcable.