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To: A. Pole

Yes, the pogroms were mostly within what is now Ukraine, Belarus, and Moldova, all then parts of the Czarist Russian empire. Jews had already been restricted to the Pale of Settlement by that time and weren't allowed to live in Russia proper. The policies of forced conscription, forced assimilation, and eventually extermination came from the Czarist government. The Black Hundreds were funded by the Czar.

Sorry, I can't let Russia off the hook that easily. Indeed, all the nations in that region, including Poland, have a history of anti-Semitism. That is NOT a reflection on the people living there today, who should be judged as individuals, or the governments of today. Indeed, both Poland and Ukraine are positioning themselves as close allies of the United States and have excellent relations with Israel. Relations between Russia and Israel, while not nearly as close, are still cordial.

Looking at all the countries in the region I am much more sanguine about Poland and Ukraine than I am about the Russian Federation. Indeed, the direction both the Polish government and people are moving in, politically, socially, and economically is very positive. I cannot say the same for Russia under Putin, as much as I would like to.


9 posted on 08/04/2004 7:39:54 AM PDT by anotherview
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To: anotherview
Yes, the pogroms were mostly within what is now Ukraine, Belarus, and Moldova, all then parts of the Czarist Russian empire. Jews had already been restricted to the Pale of Settlement by that time and weren't allowed to live in Russia proper. The policies of forced conscription, forced assimilation, and eventually extermination came from the Czarist government.

The worst atrocities took place in XVII century and at that time the area was under Polish rule (and Poles were among the victims too). Forced conscription or draft applied to all ethnic/religious groups. Russia did not have a volunteer army. Extermination?! First time I hear something like that.

10 posted on 08/04/2004 7:46:43 AM PDT by A. Pole (Major Kong: "Well, boys, I reckon this is it. Nuclear combat toe-to-toe with the Russkies.")
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To: anotherview

My grandparents left, and never looked back; neither wiull I.


14 posted on 08/04/2004 7:55:55 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: anotherview
Actually, Black Hundreds not funded by Tsar...they are not condemned by him either...which is unfortunate as they take that as blank check.

There were jews outside of Pale, professionals of the first and second order allowed to move to major cities. Extermination was never policy...again it occured during civil unrest but not once policy. Assimulation become policy under Alexander III & Nicholas II.

Of course in consideration that most Jews of Eastern Europe fled Western Europe during mass pogroms and total expulsions, like what Richard Lionhearted did.

16 posted on 08/04/2004 7:58:40 AM PDT by RussianConservative (Xristos: the Light of the World)
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