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So, is this what you really believe about the Liberation of Iraq?! Tens of millions of Iraqis FReed from Totalitarian Despotism and Mass Graves, and you see it as an "invasion"!! Mr. Perlstein, was the Liberation of Kuwait an "invasion"? How 'bout when America LIBERATED Germany, Japan, Italy, much of South America, and eastern Europe?! What is it about LIBERTY that Lib'rals so loathe?

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Who on FR is aware that the mass graves are over ten years old, by the way? Not to excuse Saddam. I despise the thug. But look: the death toll from the ENFORCED starvation in North Korea is greater than Saddam could even spit at. When comes that invasion?

I don't trust Bush with the Iraqi people's freedom and security. His man in Iraq, Chalabi, was revealed to be a spy for their sworn enemy Iran, remember.

on FR is aware that the mass graves are over ten years old, by the way?

Executions and torture continued throughout the exsistence of the regime. Using the same criteria, if we had invaded the Soviet Union and deposed Stalin, let's say, in 1948, yes we would have uncovered mass graves of ten years vintage. However, albiet on a smaller scale, we would have uncovered a number of gulags, as we did with the incredible array of prisons Saddam created in Iraq.

But look: the death toll from the ENFORCED starvation in North Korea is greater than Saddam could even spit at. When comes that invasion?

I think China, South Korea, the Russia and Japan have a say in that matter. Also, it is provable beyond doubt the DPRK have nuclear weapons. As well, as much of a vicious murderer and sociopath Saddam is, he does have his personal boundaries and limits. Baby Kim is a egomanical madman and unpredictable.

It was an eventuality that due to geopolitical necessity Saddam had to go. The facsist regime he put in place was already long moving toward the Wahabbi loons, and despite its relative toothlessness militarily (compared to 1990-91) it became increasingly evident the regime provided a haven to virtually every terrorist nasty the ME had to offer. At least with Hizbulluh the Iranians and Syrians "localized" the former's activity to Lebanon and Israel. Saddam was moving toward AQ, thus unacceptable. The resources available to AQ and other terrorists through the regime were enormous compared to anything the Afghans ever had to offer.

I don't trust Bush with the Iraqi people's freedom and security.

President Bush never had any intention to hold Iraq as a puppet state. That was a fantasy held by a few intellectuals such as Kristol and Kagan. Even Richard Perle's notorious position paper never considered such a inane idea. An independent, viable government was created in Iraq faster than in West Germany, for example. Increasingly, the Iraqis are providing for their own security. As for "freedom", it perhaps is not what you or I envision in our respective ideologies, but it is a remarkable improvement over the Stalinist murder regime it replaced.

His man in Iraq, Chalabi, was revealed to be a spy for their sworn enemy Iran, remember.

There was a great deal of conflict between the Pentagon, State and the White House regarding Chalabi's veracity, role and position in a post-Saddam Iraq. He was supported by one faction, and that support pre-dates the Bush Administration. Anyhow, that "man" has been shunted aside. Whatever it's worth, the current leaders in Iraq are already proving themselves as their own "men". Iraq is far from a British-style protectorate, or Vichy, or a Latin American republic from the days of yore. Certainly more independent than the only other regional counterpart to this transistional period--Lebanon.

"Who on FR is aware that the mass graves are over ten years old, by the way?"

Many of them are, I'm sure, but the indiscriminate torture and murder committed by Saddam, his sons, and his regime continued up to the day the Coalition Forces proceeded into Baghdad. At a recent counter-demonstration in which we were supporting Rumsfeld against the anti-War Leftists, I had the honor of meeting some survivors from Saddam's Abu Graib prison. Upstanding men, but each had had their hands severed off at the wrist...thanks to Saddam and his thugs.

"Not to excuse Saddam. I despise the thug. But look: the death toll from the ENFORCED starvation in North Korea is greater than Saddam could even spit at. When comes that invasion?"

Hey, I'm one who believes in the Liberation of Syria, Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Cuba, but I do not believe America will need to stage Iraqi-style Liberations fer each and every evil Totalitarian State. I'm sure you realize that the despotic Iranian Regime is already destabilized to the point that they could be overthrown any day, any month, any year from now. N. Korea's a tougher nut to crack, as Kim Sung Il has more of a death-grip on Power, but with China and Japan and Russia working as our allies, I'm hopeful that Regime Change--or at least Regime neutralization--will be possible in Dubyuh's second term.

"I don't trust Bush with the Iraqi people's freedom and security. His man in Iraq, Chalabi, was revealed to be a spy for their sworn enemy Iran, remember."

Fair enuff...I certainly did not trust Clinton with the Massacre of innocent Serbs and ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. Still, Dubyuh's not gonna be selecting the permanent leaders fer Iraq, Iraqis will make that selection this winter. Didn't the meeting of the 30 June deadline to turn over power to the Iraqis undercut a little of your doubt regarding Dubyuh's motives? Or is yer LOATHING fer Bush so deepset that evidence that disproves yer biases is discarded indiscriminantly?

FReegards...MUD