N Korean missiles threaten US(ship/submarine-launched missile based on SSN6)

Ireland On-line ^ | 08/03/04 | N/A

[TigerLikesRooster]

Report: N Korean missiles threaten US

03/08/2004 - 15:33:38

North Korea is deploying two new missile systems which could enable it to threaten the continental United States for the first time, Jane’s Defence Weekly reported today.

American officials had previously claimed that North Korea was developing missiles, based on the Soviet submarine-launched SSN6, which were capable of hitting the United States.

Jane’s said the new missiles, apparently based on SSN6, have a range of 1,500 miles or more.

“The submarine-launched ballistic missile or ship-mounted version of this new system is potentially the most threatening,” Jane’s reported.

“It would fundamentally alter the missile threat posed by the DPRK and could finally provide its leadership with something that it has long sought to obtain - the ability to directly threaten the continental US.”

North Korea gained some of the technical data for the system when it bought 12 decommissioned Russian Foxtrot-class and Golf II-class submarines from Japanese scrap dealers in 1993, Jane’s said.

Jane’s said North Korea is also believed to have had help from Russian missile manufacturer Makeyev.

[sukhoi-30mki]

"they might launch one missile, but then it would be over for them"

One missile is all you need to reduce a city to rubble(strangulate millions if the warhead is lined with Toxins or nerve gas)-that's all there is to nuclear deterrence-it's as simple.There's no point retaliating with 10 nukes if your enemy launches 1 at you-he loses 10,you lose 1 million people( & trust me folks like the Pakis or North Korea or Iran won't mind that)

The North Koreans have around 6-10 nukes,so they get treated as royalty when compared to poor ol' Saddam.

[chilepepper]

a north korean submarine is *always* dead meat.

the kimchee fumes are a dead giveaway and are detectable by spy satellites...

[MD_Willington_1976]

No kidding...

Sub Capt..."Hey boys...lets get the hell outta here...screw Kim".

[sukhoi-30mki]

"Does causing an enemy to not attack constitute blackmail?"


Nuclear blackmail is a very very flexible term( u use it to achieve various goals-aid,mediation,prevention of war) & it has only 2 known practicioners-Pakistan & North Korea-who 've both used it to the hilt & it is only succesful against democratic countries which are not prepared to waste the lives of their citizens.

Then give me one good reason
on
Why is'nt the US attacking North Korea ?

[chilepepper]

exactly. diesel pigboats are great as a close in line of defense, and suck seawater for long-range offense projection...

[johnb838]

The myth of the invincible America is what made September 11th possible in the first place. Continuing to believe that myth at the expense of active defense against real and present threats will invariably result in catastrophic events with mass American casualties.

Thinking that way makes as much sense as assuming W has his head in the sand because he's not engaging in public saber rattling. He HATES Kim Jong-Il. He's never far from his thoughts, I'm sure of that.

[sukhoi-30mki]

Oh i forgot there was a very extraordinary use of nuclear blackmail in 1973 during the Yom Kippur war.Israel was losing ground on the conventional war to Syria & Egypt & the Americans looked undecided.Moshe Dayan gave indirect indications(something like "End of the Third Temple") of authorisation for use of nukes.13 nukes were reportedly loaded onto artillery shells, Jericho missiles & F-4 bombers,targetted at Egypt,Damascus & Soviet bases.American spy satellites picked these movements & Kissinger got wind of it from the Israeli government & before you blinked your eyes,the American airlift of conventional weapons had started.

[sukhoi-30mki]

Well diesel boats equipped with AIP(Air independent propulsion) can stay under for over 2 weeks & most diesel-electric boats coming out now-the Russian Amur,French Scorpene,German Type-212/214 & Swedish Gotlands class have AIP modules attached.Besides you don't need long endurance especially if your on a oneway trip to Guam or Hawai which is not too far from North Korea.

[chilepepper]

except we probably know where *every single one* of their subs is at all times ;) and they don't have the money or the tradition of making long range sorties.

so, i expect that any of their subs that strays too far from home port gets attention from us they probably didn't bank on.

I would not be surprised that one of our SSN's didn't "accidently" ram the piece of junk... this happened *all the time* between US and Soviet subs, between both sides and the Russians even believed for a while that this rough underwater rugby game contributed to their recent high-tech sub disaster...

[Hollywoodghost]

These would be--one way trips for the North Koreans. Who is to say they would be used on a sub? They could be placed on a peaceful trade ship in a container. When the sky is cloudy--Container opens and out comes the rockets---bye bye San Francisco, LA and San Diego. Or maybe Pearl Harbor could be the Target. The EM Pulse will burn out computers and Telephones--America will be hurt bad. And the Koreans will say "Its Terrorists--we know kothing about it."
Sink the ship and there will be no evidence of where the attack came from. Maybe I ought to sell the idea to Tom Clancy???

[RightWhale]

Why is'nt the US attacking North Korea ?

There is a condition of war already. A UN police action actually. For the most part both sides are holding to the conditions of the ceasefire. N Kor attacked without warning last time and would have won except for MacArthur. They would have to attack without warning the next time if they are to have any chance of success. But unless China comes in on the side of N Kor again, it will be over in about three weeks. China might enter N Kor and meet the allies in Pyongyang, who knows.

[chilepepper]

a dutch, us or german pigboat (maybe even swedish) is not what north korea has at their disposal... and even then, they still suck: and can only run on electrics for so long before they have to put their schnorkel up, and then the game is over.

i have no doubt there is a magic line past which any north korean sub is not allowed to venture -- if it goes beyond that line, it will invariably "have an accident"...

[chilepepper]

do you actually believe that clouds degrade the capability of modern spy satellites??

[76834]

My thoughts are similiar to yours.

Whats to prevent someone, NK Iran etc, from putting a GPS triggered nuke on a container. Container is unloaded in Los Angeles loaded on a rail car and detonates in Houston or nearly anywhere?
Would be impossible to trace

[sukhoi-30mki]

"But unless China comes in on the side of N Kor again, it will be over in about three weeks"

that would have applied to Iraq-but to north Korea??Hmmmmmmm.
Ok lets see a (rather obselete) airforce of over 700 aircraft,100s of ballistic missiles(far better than the Grandfatherly Scuds Iraq had) which can hit Japan or South Korea & by that logic US bases there & the world's largest number of special forces personnel(some estimates say 100,000) & a small force of nukes & certain number of biological & Chemical weapons .The special forces are probably deeply infiltrated into South Korea & Japan & in the event of war will wreck havoc by sabotage & assisinations.They will unleash their artillery (which can reach Seoul) & missiles at North Korea & Japan (Any solid ATBM defence will be ready only in 2007-8 at the earliest) & chemical weapons & toxins are far easier to deploy(by hand if u want to).

Yep the war will be over in 3 weeks or even less,but countless Korean,Japanese & American lives will be lost-& what bout after the war-the only logical solution would be reunification & South Korea's war damaged economy would collapse once that happens.

In short,such a rosy scenario has only be known to work in Tom Clancy novels -the North Koreans are far too motivated & bout South Korea,U can expect lots & lots of public opposition to a war-people there are starting to prefer their "North Korean brothers to the Americans"(if various opinion polls have to be believed) & if it's so simple,why is the US planning to pull out it's forces from South Korea in a slow,phased mannner.

[NJ_gent]

"Thinking that way makes as much sense as assuming W has his head in the sand because he's not engaging in public saber rattling."

My comment wasn't aimed specifically at President Bush, nor was it specific to this crisis, but I'll certainly respond to what you said. I don't think President Bush has his head in the sand, but I do think that he, and about 200 other people in Washington are looking at other people and saying, "deal with it [the North Korean crisis]", which leaves it unresolved after 2+ years of an admitted nuclear North Korea. That's an admitted nuclear North Korea developing nuclear capable ICBMs with the entire US well within range, by the way.

I don't want saber rattling - I want a massive US strike force quietly assembled and readied for a decapitation strike against North Korea, followed by a massive invasion to take Pyongyang. I want to see huge numbers of subs and stealth bombers in the area to knock out Tae-po Dong IIs before they launch, and a bunch of Aegis cruisers off the coast to take out the launch vehicles if any do manage to launch. I want South Korean troops covering our backs and our supply lines, I want Pyongyang taken, and I want it all by the end of the year.

What's the message that sends? Threaten the US with nuclear weapons and lose control of your country. 3 million people in your armed forces offer no protection, nor do 8 to 10 nuclear weapons. Threaten the US, and you're done.

If that's the message those actions send, what message is sent by us ignoring this crisis while North Korea continues right along with building nuclear weapons and the missiles to deliver them to our cities?

[RightWhale]

N Kor has 30,000 artillery tubes. Yep, it's going to be a mess.

[Hollywoodghost]

I am sure there is some way to fool an eye in the sky--maybe shoot them off at night? Or maybe put them someplace they are not expected? I am not a Tom Clancy--but I bet there is a way to get around that--Also, How much time would it take to fire off three rockets? Minutes maybe, would there be any warning given to the targeted cities? Would anyone do anything when the alert came? What could they do?

[NJ_gent]

"Why is'nt the US attacking North Korea ?"

I hate to say it, but my only realistic thoughts on a reason behind why we haven't attacked is that such a war would generate casualties that are unacceptably high in today's US culture. When we look at the low number of casualties in Iraq against previous wars, and still see people complaining about the numbers, you see where launching a war against someone who actually does have terrain and weaponry that works against the US looks like a bad idea. That being said, protecting the US against a nuclear-armed aggressor who's approaching the point of being capable of reliably delivering an offensive nuclear strike to US cities would seem to be a higher priority than anything else in the world.

If I had a choice between a war guaranteed to take out Osama and a war that would take out North Korea, I'd take North Korea every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[gcruse]

We do not sink ships in international waters without good and sufficient (i.e., readily demonstrated) cause.

Pre-emption stops at feet-wet?