To: anotherview
HIGHLY OFFENSIVE. ??
This makes no sense to me? Jesus Christ is highly offensive?
What is highly offensive? I will ask this question til doomsday, because I do not see one thing Jesus Christ did in 33 years that was offensive to anyone? yet we offended him crucified him and many still do 2000 years later and he still forgives???But human beings still say he is the one who is offensive???
22 posted on
08/02/2004 6:12:17 PM PDT by
missyme
To: missyme
What is highly offensive?
I am a believer in Y'shua [Jesus], but I am also very aware of the LONG list of atrocities done to Jews by "Christians". "Jesus" did not offend, but 1900 years of some of His "followers" did more than just offend. Maybe you are not aware. Here are but a few examples - this only scratches the surface... study up, there will be a test later.:
306 CE: The church Synod of Elvira banned marriages, sexual intercourse and community contacts between Christians and Jews.
315: Constantine published the Edict of Milan which extended religious tolerance to Christians. Jews lost many rights with this edict. They were no longer permitted to live in Jerusalem, or to proselytize.
325: The Council of Nicea decided to separate the celebration of Easter from the Jewish Passover. They stated: "For it is unbecoming beyond measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people...We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews...our worship follows a...more convenient course...we desire dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews...How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are almost certainly blinded."
337: Christian Emperor Constantius created a law which made the marriage of a Jewish man to a Christian punishable by death.
339: Converting to Judaism became a criminal offense.
343-381: The Laodicean Synod approved Cannon XXXVIII: "It is not lawful [for Christians] to receive unleavened bread from the Jews, nor to be partakers of theirimpiety."
351: Gallus, Roman ruler of the east, lead a campaign against Jews remaining in Israel.
363: After the death of Emperor Julian, Christians attacked the Jews of Israel.
367 - 376: St. Hilary of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people who God has cursed forever. St. Ephroem refers to synagogues as brothels.
379-395: Emperor Theodosius the Great permitted the destruction of synagogues if it served a religious purpose. Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire at this time.
380: The bishop of Milan was responsible for the burning of a synagogue; he referred to it as "an act pleasing to God."
395: Jews were expelled from Alexandria by Christian authorities.
415: The Bishop of Alexandria, St. Cyril, expelled the Jews from that Egyptian city.
415: St. Augustine wrote "The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus."
418: St. Jerome, who created the Vulgate translation of the Bible wrote of a synagogue: "If you call it a brothel, a den of vice, the Devil's refuge, Satan's fortress, a place to deprave the soul, an abyss of every conceivable disaster or whatever you will, you are still saying less than it deserves."
489 - 519: Christian mobs destroyed the synagogues in Antioch, Daphne (near Antioch) and Ravenna
528: Emperor Justinian (527-564) passed the Justinian Code. It prohibited Jews from building synagogues, reading the Bible in Hebrew, assembling in public, celebrating Passover before Easter, and testifying against Christians in court.
535: Emperor Justinian I ordered the closing of all synagogues, forced conversions and other repressive decrees against the Jews.
535: The "Synod of Claremont decreed that Jews could not hold public office or have authority over Christians."
538: The 3rd and 4th Councils of Orleans prohibited Jews from appearing in public during the Easter season. Canon XXX decreed that "From the Thursday before Easter for four days, Jews may not appear in the company of Christians." Marriages between Christians and Jews were prohibited. Christians were prohibited from converting to Judaism.
561: The bishop of Uzes expelled Jews from his diocese in France.
576: Five hundred Jews of Cleremont-Ferrand in France were forced to convert.
582: Frankish King Chilperic forced many Jews to convert.
613: Very serious persecution began in Spain. Jews were given the options of either leaving Spain or converting to Christianity. Jewish children over 6 years of age were taken from their parents and given a Christian education
629: The Byzantine Empire conquered Israel and killed or expelled many Jews.
692: Cannnon II of the Quinisext Council stated: "Let no one in the priestly order nor any layman eat the unleavened bread of the Jews, nor have any familiar intercourse with them, nor summon them in illness, nor receive medicines from them, nor bathe with them; but if anyone shall take in hand to do so, if he is a cleric, let him be deposed, but if a layman, let him be cut off."
694: The 17th Church Council of Toledo, Spain defined Jews as the serfs of the prince. This was based, in part, on the beliefs by Chrysostom, Origen, Jerome, and other Church Fathers that God punished the Jews with perpetual slavery because of their responsibility for the execution of Jesus.
722: Leo III outlawed Judaism. Jews were baptized against their will.
850: Jews of Iraq were required to wear a yellow patch.
855: Jews were exiled from Italy
932: Forced conversions and massacres of Jews took place in Italy.
1012: Jews were forced to convert in Mainz, Germany.
1050: The Synod of Narbonne prohibited Christians from living in the homes of Jews.
1066: Four thousand Jews were massacred in Granada.
1078: "Pope Gregory VII decreed that Jews could not hold office or be superiors to Christians." The Synod of Gerona forced Jews to pay church taxes
1096: The First Crusade was launched in this year. Although the prime goal of the crusades was to liberate Jerusalem from the Muslims, Jews were a second target. As the soldiers passed through Europe on the way to the Holy Land, large numbers of Jews were challenged: "Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!" 12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed in the first Crusade. This behavior continued for 8 additional crusades until the 9th in 1272.
1099: During the First Crusade, crusaders forced all Jews in Jerusalem into a synagogue which they then set on fire. Those who tried to escape were forced back into the burning building. The Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem was established.
1144: The first recorded blood libel took place. Jews in Norwich, England were accused of drinking Christian blood at Passover.
1146: The Second Crusade began. A French Monk, Rudolf, called for the destruction of the Jews.
1147: The Second Crusade attacked Jewish communities in their path.
1179: Canon 24 of the Third Lateran Council stated: "Jews should be slaves to Christians and at the same time treated kindly due of humanitarian considerations." Canon 26 stated that "the testimony of Christians against Jews is to be preferred inall causes where they use their own witnesses against Christians."
1181: Another blood libel occurred in St. Edmund, England. Many Jews were held for ransom in Paris.
1189: Jews were massacred in London. The Crown claimed all Jewish possessions. Most of their houses were burned.
1190: Jews across Europe were massacred in the Third Crusade.
1192: A blood libel took place in Winchester, England.
1196: Fifteen Jews were killed in Vienna by Crusaders.
1197: Many Jews were killed in Neuss, France.
1205: Pope Innocent III wrote to the archbishops of Sens and Paris that "the Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord...As slaves rejected by God, in whose death they wickedly conspire, they shall by the effect of this very action, recognize themselves as the slaves of those whom Christ's death set free..."
1215: The Fourth Lateran Council approved canon laws requiring that "Jews and Muslims shall wear a special dress." They also had to wear a badge in the form of a ring. This was to enable them to be easily distinguished from Christians. This practice later spread to other countries.
1216: Pope Innocent III ordered the Jews to wear a badge in order to distinguish them.
1221: Many Jews were killed in Erfurt, Germany. Jews of Italy and Sicily were ordered to wear blue badges.
1225: Jews were expelled from Cremona and Pavia, Northern Italy.
1227: The Synod of Narbonne required Jews to wear an oval badge. This requirement was reinstalled during the 1930's by Hitler, who changed the oval badge to a Star of David.
1229: The Spanish inquisition starts. Later, in 1252, Pope Innocent IV authorizes the use of torture by the Inquisitors.
1230: Jews of Wiener-Neustadt, Austria were attacked for 11 days. Many Jews were killed or forced to convert in Astorga, Spain.
1236: Pope Gregory ordered that church leaders in England, France, Portugal and Spain confiscate Jewish books on the first Saturday of Lent. Two thousand five hundred Jews were killed in France.
1240: Pope Gregory IX ordered burning of Talmud and other Jewish books. Jews were expelled from Brittany, France.
1241: Most Jews of Frankfurt Am Main were massacred and the Jewish quarter was destroyed. Many Jews were killed in Bohemia by invading Tartars. Jews in Christian Spain were forced to attend conversion sermons.
1242: Twenty-four wagons loaded with copies of Talmud and other Jewish books were burned in Paris.
1243: Jews of Belitz, Germany were burned to death in first recorded libel of ritual desecration (desecrating of the host of communion).
1244: Pope Innocent IV ordered more burnings of Talmud.
1255: Many prominent Jews of England were killed after another blood libel in Lincoln.
1257: Jews of Rome were required to wear badges. In 1259, Jews of Mainz, Germany were required to do the same.
1259: A "synod of the archdiocese in Mainz ordered Jews to wear yellow badges."
1261: Duke Henry III of Brabant, Belgium, stated in his will that "Jews...must be expelled from Brabant and totally annihilated so that not a single one remains, except those who are willing to trade, like all other tradesmen, without money-lending and usury."
1264: Jews of Arnstadt, Germany were attacked and massacred .
1267: The Synod of Vienna ordered Jews to wear horned hats. Thomas Aquinas said that Jews should live in perpetual servitude.
1269: Jews of Poland, Austria, and Silesia were required to wear special hats.
1275: Jews of Worcester, England were expelled.
1277: Jews of Pamplona, Spain were attacked and their houses burned.
1278: Pope Nicholas III ordered Jews to attend conversion sermons.
1281: Jew were killed after another blood libel in Mainz, Germany.
1283: Another blood libel took place in Mainz and one in Bacharach, Germany. Many Jews were killed in the ensuing massacre.
1290: Jew were expelled from England. About 16,000 left the country. Jews of Naples, Bari and other cities in southern Italy were massacred or underwent forced baptism.
1294: Some Jews were killed, the rest expelled from Berne, Switzerland. 1298: As many as 100,000 Jews were massacred over the course of a few years in Germany during the Rindfleish massacres. Jews were massacred in Wiener-Neustadt, Ifhauben, and Morgentheim, Austria and Wurzburg and Bischofsheim, Germany. Jews were persecuted in Austria, Bavaria and Franconia. 140 Jewish communities were destroyed.
1303: Jews of Barcelona were ordered to kneel when passing Christian priests.
1328: Six thousand Jews were killed in the province of Navarre, Spain.
1332: Three hundred Jews were killed after another blood libel when a mob set the synagogue on fire in Uberlingen, Germany.
1336: One hundred and twenty Jewish communities were ravaged by Armledder Bands in Germany and Alsace. Fifteen hundred Jews were killed in Ribeuville, and all the Jews of Deggendorf were killed after a ritual desecration libel.
1337: Many Jews were killed in Bohemia.
1338: Jews were burned at the stake in Pulkau, Austria after a ritual desecration libel.
Skipping 600 years of VERY bad stuff simply for brevity
1920's, 1930's: Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf: "Today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." The Protocols are used by the Nazis to whip up public hatred of the Jews in the 1930's.
Widespread pogroms occur in Greece, Hungary, Mexico, Poland, Rumania, and the USSR. Radio programs by many conservative American clergy, both Roman Catholic and Protestant, frequently attacked Jews. Reverend Fr. Charles E Coughlin was one of the best known. "In the 1930's, radio audiences heard him rail against the threat of Jews to America's economy and defend Hitler's treatment of Jews as justified in the fight against communism." Other conservative Christian leaders, such as Frank Norris and John Straton supported the Jews. Discrimination against Jews in North America is widespread. Many universities set limits on the maximum number of Jewish students that they would accept. Harvard accepted all students on the basis of merit until after World War I when the percentage of Jewish students approached 15%. At that time they installed an informal quota system. In 1941, Princeton had fewer than 2% Jews in their student body. Jews were routinely barred from country clubs, prestigious neighborhoods, etc.
1940s: 6 million Jews killed by Nazi Germany. Using Martin Luthers own words as a basis:
"What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews?
First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christian.
Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies.
Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them.
Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb.
Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like.
Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess.
Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.
But what will happen even if we do burn down the Jews' synagogues and forbid them publicly to praise God, to pray, to teach, to utter God's name? They will still keep doing it in secret. If we know that they are doing this in secret, it is the same as if they were doing it publicly. For our knowledge of their secret doings and our toleration of them implies that they are not secret after all and thus our conscience is encumbered with it before God."
Martin Luther. From Luther's Works, Volume 47: The Christian in Society IV, (Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1971). pp 268-293
We have much to be ashamed of
and you ask about how someone is offended?
BTW, this comes in part from a document called Litany at http://www.bethimmanuel.org.
52 posted on
08/02/2004 6:56:01 PM PDT by
safisoft
To: missyme
I do not see one thing Jesus Christ did in 33 years that was offensive to anyone? The Pharisees and moneychangers might disagree with you on that one ;)
106 posted on
08/02/2004 7:53:59 PM PDT by
asgardshill
("I like the yellow ones")
To: missyme
This makes no sense to me? Jesus Christ is highly offensive?If you made any attempt to convert my underaged child from my religion to any other religion behind my back and without my express permission, I would not only be highly offended, I would initiate legal action against you to stop it, if need be. It is not Jesus that would be offensive in such a case, but rather the person attempting the conversion.
124 posted on
08/02/2004 8:24:38 PM PDT by
Dont Mention the War
(we use the ¡°ml maximize¡± command in Stata to obtain estimates of each aj , bj, and cm.)
To: missyme
Your attempts (those who try to convert us) is highly offensive. Jesus is not offensive, just as totally unimportant to Jews as Mohammed or Budha.
The Palestinians, at least, tell me to my face they wish to kill me. You, OTOH, tell me how you love me then try to strip me of my religion, my faith, my culture, everything that makes me a Jew. If that is the price of Christian support of Israel then please go support the Arab. I would prefer to die a Jew than surrender who and what I am.
I have always been terribly distrustful of fundamentalist Chirstian support for Israel. Why? I've read Revelation. 2/3 of the Jews wiped out, the rest converted. Sorry, that is the end of us every bit as much as being conquered by the Arabs. That is not a future I want. Since I don't believe it to be scripture in any way, shape, or form, that is one I can fight.
To: missyme
This makes no sense to me? Jesus Christ is highly offensive? "But I preach Jesus Christ crucifed - to the Greeks, foolishness, and to the Jews, a stumblingblock." - Paul
456 posted on
08/04/2004 6:26:23 AM PDT by
BSunday
To: missyme; All
Missyme,
Try to be objective for one moment. As a Jew, I consider Jesus to have been a false prohpet.
How would you feel if Muslims where perfidiously proselytising Christian youth through false pretenses? Would not an apologist for this say that Mohammed was beyond reproach and that they seek only to complete the Christianity of the youth?
674 posted on
08/05/2004 10:56:34 PM PDT by
rmlew
(Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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