[ArGee]

Yes, and that argument has always had logical problems. IIRC, the general line was that nothing arises out of nowhere, that it must have an origin. So clearly there must be a maker for all of life and non-life that clearly must have always existed without its own origin or that maker couldn't be the Almighty.

That's you from #8.

Perhaps you weren't stating that you don't see a problem with not knowing where the Universe started. If so, I owe you an apology.

I believe it is a problem, and one that must be theoretically addressed. By all the laws of physics that I understand, there must be a first cause. The Universe can not be uncaused. I don't mind people claiming they are cool with not knowing the first cause. I do mind people claiming there is no requirement for one.

However, G-d does not require a first cause. That's because we don't have a "physics" for the continuum which G-d inhabits. We don't know its rules. You may choose to apply the rules of our universe to His continuum, but there is no reason to prefer to do that than to prefer not to do that. Therefore, it is not a contradiction to say the universe requires a Creator, but G-d does not.

Shalom.

[AQGeiger]

That part of my post in #8 was a paraphrase of the argument I generally hear from Creationists, which I find faulty. I believe that if science is a product of whatever created the Universe, then the source must be responsible to the science it created. We'll have to respectfully disagree on that. That post was anything but a statement of belief.

I have no problem with not knowing how the Universe was created. However, I simply do not believe that, because we cannot prove or disprove the cause of its creation, it must be attributed to an Almighty. I see that as more of a result of people being unable to handle not knowing than truly desiring to know.