Ok, so you both called me out for "missing the point" of The Village. Usually, I'd let it go and chalk up our difference of opinion, but since Ichneumon has wowed me on more than one occasion before on the science threads, I felt I need to re-examine my post.
1) I lamented that Ivy was blind yet could somehow negotiate the forest. This has nothing to do with the plot, but it still bothered me. Yes, Dr. Frank, she fell into the muddy pit, but if beforehand, after several hours in the woods, her knees and palms were clean. My point was that she absolutely would have fallen before the muddy pit scene and her knees would certainly have been dirty already. Hitchcock would have nailed this trifle. At the least, she has an incredible sense of direction (even though, yes, she'd eventually hit the wall no matter how many missteps, I suppose).
2) Sure, Noah "liked playing monster." But he also liked Ivy. I can't presume the retarded mindset, but I'd think once he detected her sheer terror, he'd have exposed himself in some way... rather than making those gutteral sounds he seemed incapable of while uncloaked.
3) My point about the "high priced actors" can be retracted. My wife pointed out to me that she felt the adults were stilted in their speech on purpose, making the very capable Jeff Bridges come off as 2nd rate. In the exchange b/w Bridges and his daughter regarding her intent to marry Lucious, he was robotic with forced speech patterns, whereas the girl was much more natural. Explanatoin being that he has to force it, having lived in the "real world" previously, whereas his daughter only knew that manner of speech. Still, what's the point in creating such Puritan-speak? One can be devoid of curse words without sounding hokey.
4) I commented that the Preserve's secret would not remain in 2004. Dr. Frank compared it to the 6th sense and challenged me to suspend my disbelief. However, hte 6th sense was a ghost movie and it worked. This was, ostensibly, a drama. Weak argument, yes, but I can justify it if only in my own mind. Ichneumon said that the set-up, ownership, and guard duty would have been sufficient. I guess, since I grew up outside of Philly, I couldn't shake the knowledge that I've combed those very woods and I know how teenagers are. The rumor would be out there, and stupid kids would breach the wall at some point.
5) Ok, so you both justify sending a blind girl (with guides). Even though Hurt could have jogged himself to the very same guardpost, and gotten the very same medicine. Since the guard reading the paper was "in on it," it wouldn't have been a big deal. And yes, I know the two kids got scared and turned back (which gives credence to the "secret") but I wanted to see them punished. Even if there were no monsters, leaving a blind person alone in the woods is shameful. None of us would do that.
*****
Ok, I'm done. I still think the movie could have been much, much better. The idea, the intent, and the styling were all great. The end product, though, didn't do it for me at all. Too hokey... I still think he should have focused in more on societal taboos or religious/cultural symbolism gone awry.
I think Noah kept the costume on because he was determined to steer Ivy back to the village and stop her from getting the medicine needed to save Lucius.
I'm not sure you "missed the point", I just think some of your complaints were somewhat petty. :-) I tend to agree that The Village is not his best work. But people seem to be looking for reasons to dislike it.
My point was that she absolutely would have fallen before the muddy pit scene and her knees would certainly have been dirty already.
I don't know how you can presume to know that. We can agree that her being blind gives her an error rate while walking, something of the form "she tends to fall once per X hours on average, or if she's in a hurry, once per Y hours, with Y < X". What I don't understand is how you can declare that "too much time" had passed without her falling, to be believable. Do you know what Y is? Do you know how long she had been walking?
Anyway, the film had established that she was skilled at navigating. (Remember how she got to Lucius's house.) Yes she was blind but she had had years of practice at it.
I can't presume the retarded mindset, but I'd think once he detected her sheer terror, he'd have exposed himself in some way...
But he liked scaring people. He was, well, not right in the head. The skinned animals were due to him, and you presume to know that he wouldn't want to put a fright into Ivy? It seems clear that he did want to put a fright into Ivy, maybe even kill her. I don't know how you can presume to second-guess what this character would do. He had already demonstrated himself capable of murder.
Ichneumon said that the set-up, ownership, and guard duty would have been sufficient. I guess, since I grew up outside of Philly, I couldn't shake the knowledge that I've combed those very woods and I know how teenagers are.
Well, you're probably "too close" to the setting of the movie. If I had grown up near Hollywood Boulevard, and went to see a movie about a fictional shop located at 1234 Hollywood Boulevard, which I absolutely knew didn't exist in real life (because there's a laundromat at that location, or whatever), I'd probably have a more difficult time suspending my disbelief than the average person, too.
5) Ok, so you both justify sending a blind girl (with guides). Even though Hurt could have jogged himself to the very same guardpost, and gotten the very same medicine
I think you are missing something here, actually. You're still analyzing this as if Hurt's character would have chosen the option likely to give the maximum probability of success (and criticizing the story because he didn't). What you're missing is that this, evidently, was not his primary concern. Rightly or wrongly, he thought that his daughter ought to experience taking a risk and exploring the unknown, for love. This was one of the big themes of the story - because it was what the Elders had abandoned in forming the Village. Think back to a certain piece of dialogue, where he told his daughter that she had "earned" the right to go get the medicine. Think about what he could have possibly meant by that.
Again, we agree that he didn't act in 100% rational ways. What I don't understand is why that is supposed to count as a criticism of a story. There are lots of stories in which people don't act rationally. This is certainly one of them :-)
Since the guard reading the paper was "in on it," it wouldn't have been a big deal.
I actually disagree somewhat with the people here saying Shyamalan's character was in on it. Yes, he knew there was some secret he was protecting, but it wasn't clear to me that he knew what it was. Even if he did, the Hurt character wouldn't have necessarily been able to count on that.
And yes, I know the two kids got scared and turned back (which gives credence to the "secret") but I wanted to see them punished. Even if there were no monsters, leaving a blind person alone in the woods is shameful. None of us would do that.
I see. That's an interesting point, I do now wonder what the reaction of the Village was to them when they returned. I would guess they wouldn't be too hard on them. Remember that part and parcel of the monster taboo was that "they won't bother you if you're not scared". Their excuse for leaving Ivy was that she wasn't scared while they were, so she was safe. A lot of people in the Village may have actually bought that. Or at least been understanding and forgiving of their fear anyway. And since Ivy returned in the end, no harm no foul....
I still think the movie could have been much, much better.
Well, me too (maybe not "much much" better, but better). I'm certainly not here to say it was a perfect movie, as it stands it's probably my 4th favorite Shyamalan movie ;-) But I'd still give a thumbs-up, and the real problems with it had nothing to do with these logical nit-picks of the plot.
I still think he should have focused in more on societal taboos or religious/cultural symbolism gone awry.
Well, but that's not what the story was about. You're asking him to have made a different movie. That's ok I guess, just kinda weird. Sort of like saying "I think Animal House should have focused in more on the academic environment of college". ;-) Best,