Playing for all Elgin Marbles

Houston Chronicle ^ | August 1, 2004 | SUSAN NAGEL

[propertius]

And as I said, I can't have much confidence in the soundness of your arguments when their basis is the witterings of a drugged-up, loony lefty with dubious sexual proclivities.

Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of Byron's poetry. I just think he should have stuck to the poetry.

The man hated his country and hated every principle that most FReepers hold dear...

[propertius]

Should the British Museum return the Cyrus Cylinder to Iraq?

[propertius]

To compare The Elgin Marbles to the Holocaust is a little sick, is it not?

And your Chinese analogy is a non-sequitur. All the itmes we are talking about in museums these days were not illegally seized by the laws of the day or were removed in wartime situations.

Hence the Chinese could not lawfully take the dec of ind. unless they were at war. And if their troops reached the Heart of Washington and rescued it from the burning ruins of your capital then good on them.

[MrsEmmaPeel]

And as I said, I can't have much confidence in the soundness of your arguments when their basis is the witterings of a drugged-up, loony lefty with dubious sexual proclivities.

Oh, good grief! Talk about selective reading of my posts. At the risk of repeating myself (again!) Read the British Government report of 1816.

[propertius]

Your last post to me asking me to read the Curse of Minerva. How is that selective reading?

[nickcarraway]

I guess you didn't get it.

[nopardons]

I don't know why you included me in the ping,but I am adamantly opposed to the British Museum returning the Elgin Marbles to Greece.They weren't taken illegally and if Lord Elgin hadn't taken them back to England,they most assuredly would not now exist.

[nopardons]

That's patently ridiculous,irrelevant,and silly.

[SunkenCiv]

do facts not mean anything to you?

Bye.

[Cronos]

Should the British Museum return the Cyrus Cylinder to Iraq?

Wouldnt' that be to Iran? Yes, when the Irani government is ready to take care of them properly. Ditto for the Edicts of Hammurabi -- but neither Irq nor irn is ready to take care of these monuments while Greece IS so that is not a valid counter-argument

[Cronos]

To compare The Elgin Marbles to the Holocaust is a little sick, is it not?

Nope, I'm not comparing hte Elgin Marbles ot hte Holocaust (how can you compare them ? One is a set of marble carvings and hte other is a human tragedy duuh)

I'm comparing the Germans robbing Jewish people during WWII -- they had to return the amount robbed. Similarly, British persons did take GReek heritage and should return it. Maybe they get compensated or something, but they should return it

[Cronos]

And your Chinese analogy is a non-sequitur. All the itmes we are talking about in museums these days were not illegally seized by the laws of the day or were removed in wartime situations.

The laws of the day when Greece was occupied? So, when Poland was occupied by the Germans and Russians, any atrocities were fine because it was taken according to the "laws of the day"? strange logic.

So, the GErmans occupation of hte Channel islands were ok?

The British were drug dealers to the Chinese and forced the Chinese government to allow them, the British drug dealers, to sell drugs to the Chinese. They also used force to occupy part of the Chinese Empire.

[Cronos]

Nope, its an analogy

[nopardons]

Not even close to one.

[propertius]

I regard it as offensive to compare the robbing of the jews by the Nazis to the removal of the marbles by Elgin. How can you make that comparison? Or maybe I was unaware of the fact that the British gassed six million Greeks in concentration camps...

[Cronos]

I regard it as offensive to compare the robbing of the jews by the Nazis to the removal of the marbles by Elgin. How can you make that comparison?

Well -- the Nazis robbed the treasures of a people (the Jews). Similarly Elgin (a Brit) robbed the treasures of a people (the Greeks)

[MadIvan]

My reply to the Greeks...

"Go forth and multiply"

Lord Elgin saved those marbles from destruction in your wars and from the pollution of Athens. Through the British Museum, the British taxpayer has been paying for their upkeep. You can have them back some time after Hell freezes over.

Regards, Ivan

[MadIvan]

Well -- the Nazis robbed the treasures of a people (the Jews). Similarly Elgin (a Brit) robbed the treasures of a people (the Greeks)

Rubbish. Elgin had the co-operation of the authorities to do what he did - it wasn't like he was the head of an invading army with loot on his mind. As noted, this saved the marbles from destruction.

The Greeks can go to hell.

Regards, Ivan

[Cronos]

Or maybe I was unaware of the fact that the British gassed six million Greeks in concentration camps...

Well, not directly. But then remember the Crimean War? Russia was about to liberate the Balkans (including Greece) and most likely Greek Anatolia and Armenia from theMuslim Ottoman Empire. But the ENGLISH and the French combined forces with the Ottomans to stop the Russians.

Think about that. If the BRits had not supported a Muslim nation against a Christian nation, then

1. Istanbul would now be Constantinople
2. The Hagia Sophia, the grandest church in Eastern Orthodoxy (and the oldest and one of the grandest churchs in all of Christendom) would have been reconsecrated as a church
3. There would have been no Greek massacre by Kemal Ataturk
4. There would have been no Armenian and Assyrian genocide
5. No Cyprus division (again exacerbated by the English)
6. Probably no communist revolution in Russia

[Cronos]

Lord Elgin saved those marbles from destruction in your wars and from the pollution of Athens. Through the British Museum, the British taxpayer has been paying for their upkeep. You can have them back some time after Hell freezes over.

He didn't save them, he took 'em. BUt you are right, it did have a good outcome -- the marbles were protexted from the wars with the Turks. However, NOW the Greeks can look after their treasures, so they should make an offer to the British Museum to take back those treasures and display them in their original setting. Maybe a recompensation for the years of looking after them?