CBN.com – Former Muslim, turned born-again Christian, Dr. Ergun Caner was born in Stockholm, Sweden and raised as the son of an Islamic leader.
In 1982, he converted to the Christian faith. As a result, his father disowned him. But that same day, both of his brothers accepted Christ. Dr. Caner has authored eight books on Islam, and is currently a Professor of Theology and Church History at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. Recently he spoke to Lee Webb on The 700 Club to discuss his latest book, Michael Moore, and the growing phenomenon he calls "Hatriotism."
LEE WEBB: Our guest today says that director Michael Moore and others like him, actively promote an agenda he calls Hatriotism. Ergun Caner is a Turkish-born immigrant who was raised as a Muslim. He is now a Christian and Professor of Theology and Church History at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. He is also the co-author of eight books about Islam, including the latest, Christian Jihad. Dr. Caner, welcome back to the program.
ERGUN CANER: Thank you, Lee.
WEBB: I am curious about -- Hatriotism. Tell us what it is, and tell us why you believe Michael Moore is the leading exponent of Hatriotism.
CANER: I think that what Michael Moore and others like him have done is to spit on the graves of my dead countrymen, who longed for the freedom that America has brought them. I think that Hatriotism is the new, modern, culturally relevant idea where it is popular to rouse up a crowd by making fun of America … or the administration, or the troops. The radicals are those who stand for the truth. I was tired of listening to man after man after man insult my people, by saying this was a war about oil, or a war about personal agendas.
WEBB: You say your people -- you mean Americans?
CANER: Not just Americans. I am a Persian, yes, I am a Christian; I have that agenda if that's something you want to say. But at least I am honest about it. I think it is insulting to say that giving my people the first taste of freedom that we have had in four generations [is bad]. Our women are able to be educated in Afghanistan. I asked the question in a public debate, "Where are the feminists? Where are the Michael Moores, saying it is good that we are educating the women?" Precisely because America's troops came into our country and freed our men, freed our women, and allowed our people to speak.
WEBB: Why do you think Michael Moore appears to be blind to the difference between freedom and the kind of oppression that is going on in an Islamic theocracy?
CANER: Well, he begins with the fundamental assumption that everybody has a right to be what they want to be. And there's nothing wrong with that, but nobody has that right in my country. Theocratic rule means you do what I tell you to do. And Allah is telling you to do this. Islam has never allowed religious freedom or allowed freedom of speech, or freedom of the press, or freedom of thought. And now, for the first time in history, this administration is bringing us the freedom to disagree and the freedom to dissent. To make a mockery of that is to mock the people who gave their lives, and who continue to defend the lives of my people.
WEBB: Your book, as we mentioned, is called Christian Jihad, and it is co-authored with your brother. Talk about the parallels between modern Islam and the Crusades. It is uncomfortable for us to think that there was a time in Christian history when the Crusades actually happened, but there are parallels, aren't there?
CANER: Yes, actually I think what happened was, we lost sight of the fact that Christ called us to love the infidels, love the pagan and non-believer. There is a dark chapter in our Christian history, where we called a jihad -- Pope Urban the Second, at a council in Claremont, November the 27th, 1095. He jumped up and said in Latin, "God wills it." He wills for our soldiers to kill in the name of Christ. That is why bin Laden, that's why Mullah Omar, {Sheik} Abdel Rachman call us 'The Crusaders.' Because they are aware, if we are not aware, that in our own history we declared a jihad.
WEBB: In your book, in the end, you show the parallels between Pope Urban's speech and Osama bin Laden's rhetoric. They are much the same.
CANER: We compared bin Laden's fatwah, February 23, 1998, and Pope Urban's speech and they were the exact same. Both of them said if you kill in the name of our god, you will be forgiven of your sins -- plenary indulgence -- and immediately forgiven, rewards in heaven based on the death of the infidel. It was a dark chapter. But the great point is, Christianity's had a reformation. Islam now stands on the precipice of either reforming or going further into the jihadic history that they've followed.
WEBB: And as you so ably pointed out, when a Muslim murders in the name of his god, he is obeying his god, as it relates to the Koran. When a Christian calls for murder or murders in the name of his God, he is going against the rules of Scripture.
CANER: Yes sir. We were in Canada, in a debate. One man jumped up and said, "Yeah, but you blow up clinics." That's true. There are Christians who blow up clinics. But when a Christian does so, he does so in defiance of the very words of Jesus. When a Muslim does so, when they slowly sever the head of an American solely because he looks Jewish, they are lauded, and are doing so in explicit adherence to the teachings and example of Muhammad.
WEBB: Ergun, do you believe that democracy can thrive in a new Iraq?
CANER: I believe you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. This is a grand experiment. We are bringing democracy, freedom of dissent, to my people. For the first time in generations an Islamic republic will have allowed freedom of dissent. If it happens, we will have achieved what no one else has ever been able to do.
WEBB: Let me ask you too, how Islam is being perceived, and how the United States is being perceived around the world? You traveled worldwide. You talk to folks, you talk to people who are Muslim. What is their response to you?
CANER: Well, this is the part that gets to me. Talk about Hatriotism -- that's what we see in the news -- not CBN and not some of the others. But by and large, [in most of] the news shows, the minority of people are screaming and chanting that they don't want us there. Yet everywhere we go, we can't walk five feet without someone thanking us, and thanking our troops for giving the women, the right to be educated, to read and write; for the men and women to speak without being stoned to death as a consequence. They are thrilled we're there. But the problem is, we do not see that in the news. Instead, we see the talking heads who scream, 'protestors, protestors.'
WEBB: Ergun Caner is the author of the book Christian Jihad, co-authored with his brother. Ergun, thank you for being with us. We appreciate it so much.
Order your copy of Christian Jihad.
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