Posted on 07/27/2004 8:40:23 AM PDT by prairiebreeze
What the Gestapo did wasn't criminal either.
And if they aren't there for that, and just sit quietly, how is that trespass or intimidation? I think the letter to the congregations might have some legal issues, but I don't think there is a case against someone attending a service open to the public if they do not act in a disruptive manner.
So Pastor Johnson says:
"Everyone associated with the Mainstream Coalition is on the left side of the political spectrum. There is nothing mainstream about the Mainstream Coalition. They need to be censored."
I confess that this attitude is frightening to me, even more frightening than what the other side is doing. After all, if the churches are not doing anything wrong, they have nothing to fear. Isn't that the "law and order" mentality we see so much here at FR?
Is there any dobut that their intent is to intimidate?
Hardly. However, a federal investigation is being called for here. I am asking, where is the crime or action that warrants such? And why is it actionable if it is indistinguishable at the time from any other congregant?
Because, in the end, if you can't make the case to me, how is the case going to be made to the feds?
I am curious - if a church has a sign out from that it is open to all and someone from this group attends a service and notes what is said - how is that a criminal act?
It isn't the writing notes on the sermon, it's threatening the church with going to the IRS if the pastor has the nerve to give the congregation info on how candidates vote or think. It's intimidation. It's extortion.
Indeed, because the lefites have the biggest mouths. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Maybe we need to squeak a little more.
Help me out here. Since when has it been harrassment to observe?
Indeed, because the lefites have the biggest mouths (even though they try to pretend they have a 'live and let live, don't judge another' philosophy). The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Maybe we need to squeak a little more.
My question exactly. I didn't see any mention of bullying in the article, just observation. Since when is that actionable or even questionable?
The SS use to monitor churches too. Anyone that doesn't think the evil dums and their fellow travelers are the reincarnation of the National Socialist Workers Party (Nazi's) are living in a fantasy world.
The whole relationship between religion and politics is very confused, and this confusion goes back to the Bible itself. Jesus clearly makes demands on his followers which in a modern context could be construed as having political implications - take care of widows, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. Churches can address these mandates through private charity (conservatives) or through government programs (liberals), or perhaps both. But it's hard for churchmen to speak on issues without it seeming political or partisan, whether it's intended that way or not. So these tax rules do intrude on free speech, in my opinion.
Drop the damned income tax.
Having someone show up to watch is intimidating? Aren't these churches open to the public?
Legally, it's probably not. However, imagine for a moment, if you will, attending church services with a representative of the Communist party watching, knowing that they will be reporting back to party headquarters.
If you can imagine that, you can kind of understand the issue.
It seems to me that they wish to use the IRS laws to prevent churches from politicking from the pulpit by looking for violations. We complain all the time about how Dems do this from liberal churches, but never do anything about it. Maybe instead of screaming about intimidation, we should step away from the keyboards and monitor liberal services for politicking - or work to change the law in question.
Ding Ding Ding
If there were no income tax code and there were no IRS, this would not even be a problem.
BTW there is a bill in Congress right now with 56 cosponsors that would indeed eliminate the entire income tax code AND eliminate/defund the IRS. It's HR 25 the "Fair Tax".
Google it.
Observation is harrassment? Get real. If the idea that someone is watching you in church is chilling, you must have something to hide.
There was a big difference - in the USSR, being religious was a crime. In this matter, using the pulpit of a tax-exempt church to politic is a civil violation of the U.S. tax code - but there is no criminality to religion being preached.
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