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Church of Bush: What liberal infidels will never understand about president (FREEPERS quoted)
Village Voice ^ | July 20th, 2004 10:00 AM | Rick Perlstein

Posted on 07/21/2004 6:42:20 AM PDT by dead

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To: dead
I asked Lars about the Gay Marriage debate, as I had not heard it.

"Its true. And I thought his arguments were relatively good...altho ultimately flawed"

It sounds like this guy is a smart fellow and the real question is can you hold him down long enough to get to the core of the arguments. All this Q&A he did is surface stuff and any of his indictments on these Bush supporters can be fitted to the Clinton/Clinton worshipers fairly easily. But what about the fundamental philosophies held?

61 posted on 07/21/2004 2:12:17 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (Veritas vos liberabit)
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To: Perlstein

There are hero-worshippers in every occupation. If you don't believe me, just log onto DU and look at them drool over Kerry's dorky pics of him windsurfing.

Your article was boring btw.


62 posted on 07/21/2004 2:25:00 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: dead
and I use to fly myself,

Obviously the transcript person is malfunctioning, it should be:
and I used to fly myself

Perlstein mailed me and admitted "making a mistake" about the "live on TV" part, but still said Bush should be charged with a different kind of lying than he had said, because he was oh so sure he was lying anyway.

Talk about your moving target...

63 posted on 07/21/2004 4:48:27 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: dead
'after he insisted Bush couldn't have been lying when he claimed to have witnessed the first plane hit the World Trade Center live on TV, '

When did W ever say this?

64 posted on 07/21/2004 4:58:09 PM PDT by mathluv (Protect my grandchildren's future. Vote for Bush/Cheney '04.)
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To: Perlstein; Miss Marple
For now I'll only respond to one point, Miss Marple's:
"Forgive me if I don't believe your concern about conservatives, since I have never seen evidence of that before."
I spent three years contributing to the history of the conservative movement, my book BEFORE THE STORM, on Barry Goldwater, which received glowing reviews in National Review, Weekly Standard, LewRockwell, Human Events, Buckley's column, and many other conservative outlets, grateful for my contribution to the their understanding of the movement...
From www.amazon.com:
Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus
by Rick Perlstein


Search inside this book

65 posted on 07/21/2004 9:07:55 PM PDT by RonDog
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To: dead; Miss Marple
which received glowing reviews in National Review...
Here is a SHORT EXCERPT from www.nationalreview.com:

Voice in the Wilderness
Perlstein knows the significance of the Goldwater story.

By William A. Rusher, distinguished fellow of the Claremont Institute & former publisher of National Review
April 21-22, 2001

 

Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus, by Rick Perlstein (Hill and Wang, 671 pp., $30)

s Alan Brinkley observed in the American Historical Review in April 1994, "American conservatism has been something of an orphan in historical scholarship." This should be no cause for surprise; most contemporary historians are liberals, and there was no obvious reason why they should devote themselves to the objective study of a phenomenon they found it positively painful to contemplate — especially since the tale, as it unfolded across the decades, turned out to be a success story. So the modern American conservative movement has been left, for many years, to the tender mercies of writers who had something very different from objective historical scholarship on their minds.

Sheer silence was the treatment of choice in the 1950s, though a few liberal commentators weighed in with snide observations. Arthur Schlesinger Jr., whose judgment in these matters is dependably poor (we shall hear from him again, later in this review), assured readers of the New York Times Magazine in mid-decade that the movement had no significance, being merely "the ethical afterglow of feudalism." John Fischer, the editor of Harper's, was kinder, writing in its March 1956 issue that National Review, the movement's leading (indeed, only) journal of opinion, might "serve a useful purpose in feeding the emotional hungers of a small congregation of the faithful, and it will have a certain interest for students of political splinter movements."

By the early 1960s, the growth of the conservative movement, and its consequent higher visibility, prompted certain other liberals to tackle the subject. Now the analysis tended to be clinical: Conservatism did not need to be understood so much as diagnosed. Richard Hofstadter, in The Paranoid Style in American Politics, turned to psychology for an explanation, suggesting that a sense of "persecution" characterized conservatives.

No doubt Barry Goldwater's landslide defeat by Lyndon Johnson in 1964 reconfirmed serious liberal historians in their belief that there was nothing here worth studying. In any case, another 16 years rolled by without any objective history worthy of the name. (An important exception, written by one of the few conservative historical scholars in the country, was George H. Nash's magisterial study, The Conservative Intellectual Movement in America Since 1945, published by Basic Books in 1976.)

But one might suppose that the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980, which ratified the ascendancy of the conservative movement in American politics, would surely inspire, at last, serious attention to the movement's history. Alas, no; another two decades passed in virtual silence, prompting Professor Brinkley's comment, quoted above.

It is only now, with the appearance of a whole new generation of political historians who were born too late to participate in the ideological wars of the 1950s and subsequent decades, that we are being vouchsafed the objective attention the conservative movement has deserved for more than forty years. And it is good news that one of the earliest of these studies, Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus, by Rick Perlstein, is comprehensively researched, well written, and basically fair...


66 posted on 07/21/2004 9:14:48 PM PDT by RonDog
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To: Perlstein

I read this again at my leisure. I don't think it worth my time to dissect your article....however,as we are want to do I started to do just that ....
My inner dialogue lead me to reflect again on the word "bigotry." Growing up in Texas I had heard the word since childhood and had always assumed it meant racist. When I looked it up I was surprised to find this:

bigotry

\Big"ot*ry\, n. [Cf. F. bigoterie.] 1. The state of mind of a bigot; obstinate and unreasoning attachment of one's own belief and opinions, with narrow-minded intolerance of beliefs opposed to them.

It struck me then (I looked it up years ago) that one did not have to be a racist or stupid to be a bigot ... in fact the more educated I became the more I realized that the educated among us were the more bigoted.

Why do I reflect on this in regard to your article? Because clearly you went into it with your perms firmly in place and emerged with that same perms completely unscathed...and you discovered nothing in your journey ....So the next time you get with your friends and colleagues and chuckle snidely with your superior airs about "Bush" look around and ask yourself "Is anyone here a bigot ?"


67 posted on 07/24/2004 12:13:17 AM PDT by woofie ( I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize.)
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To: Perlstein

Who are you, and why do you think you matter?


68 posted on 08/02/2004 1:09:48 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Sin Patria, pero sin amo)
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To: Perlstein
Conservatives see something angelic in George Bush. That's why they excuse, repress, and rationalize away so much.

And that is why conservatism is verging on becoming an un-American creed.

You are a clever writer, and the interview of conservatives in your column twisted them to appear as mind-numbed religious robots.

The cult of personality is strong. I have never met Bill Clinton, but I am sure that I could speak to him while standing on a white carpet and he could convince me that it was black, or at least make me look down several times. Conservatives are not hypnotized similarly by Bush's persona. Instead, most of them feel straight, logical respect and admiration for him. Why?

In my case, I admire him for standing by his principles even at cost to himself and his career. I am relieved that he does not have needs and insecurities so great that they show to the American public and affect his duties.

I admire him for wanting to keep America safe and good more than wanting America to be liked.

I respect that he has a core, and I respect that his core is from what I believe to be the only core: The Torah or Bible.

I believe what his best friend has said publicly, that Bush arises and goes to work each day trying to do the best he possibly can in service to the American people, including yourself. It takes strength of spirit to put one's self aside and become a humble servant to us. Yet the point is that he does not awake and think to himself, "How can I and mine most profit from the world today?"

Plenty of us disagree with Bush on some issues. I know I do, on several. Who can agree on everything? And the few that seem to be worshiping him like an angel are completely misguided or being silly.

When I was very young, I believed what you believe. But you liberal journalists (almost an oxymoron) fooled me back then, telling me Reagan was stupid and bad, when in actuality he was divinely bright and very good indeed.

President George W. Bush's presidency is most likely also one that will be a beacon to future generations all over this earth. His actions have already improved and saved so many lives. The ripple of positive force is nowhere near over.

I know you liberals ascribe evil, selfish intentions to all Bush has done, but logically there is a great chance you are wrong. Can you face that? I have read your essays and books and tried hard to find the evil you see, but it is not there. Your torrid hatred, if not pure projection, might be nothing more than burning the witch to save her.

69 posted on 08/03/2004 3:11:48 PM PDT by Yaelle
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