Posted on 07/19/2004 1:29:52 PM PDT by JOAT
INDEPENDENCE, Mo. -- Police in Independence conducted a driver checkpoint on Thursday, but it wasn't to look for drunken drivers.
For about an hour Thursday afternoon, officers stopped vehicles to make sure drivers had valid licenses. But some are questioning the legality of holding such a checkpoint.
Independence police have arrested more than 1,300 drivers this year for driving without a valid license, KMBC's Jim Flink reported. On Thursday, police stopped about 300 drivers on a busy street.
Independence Officer Tom Gentry said drivers without licenses pose a safety concern.
"It's a public safety issue. On public highways, you don't want illegal drivers out there who might pose a grave danger," he said.
But Gentry added there are other reasons for wanting to make the stops.
"People who don't bother to get their driver's license or get them renewed -- usually that's an indicator of other problems as well," Gentry said.
Independence officers issued 10 tickets on Thursday, and they also arrested four people on outstanding warrants and one person for possession of narcotics and drug paraphernalia.
But Dick Kurtenback, of the American Civil Liberties Union, said he's troubled by police stopping drivers for this type of search.
"This bothers me -- they're conducting general searches without probable cause," he said. "I think the problem there is they're changing some essential aspects of this country's character, and I think it's troublesome that they're doing that."
Kurtenbach said the searches may violate people's Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure. Some drivers with whom Flink spoke agreed.
"For public safety, I think it's all right. But it does kind of bother me, in the sense that I think it's an invasion of my personal liberty," driver T.K. Shiao said.
But motorist Jan Huff-Soper thought police were doing the right thing.
"It sounds like they have a lot of people driving without licenses, and I would hope people driving out there would have valid licenses," she said.
Police said the number of arrests this year proves the roadblocks work. The police department is basing its use of checkpoints on a Supreme Court case that allows DUI roadblocks in the interest of public safety.
Kurtenbach said drivers without licenses aren't inherently dangerous, even if they are breaking the law.
Yeah! Down with the evil white man! Myself included! I'm going to drag myself into the woods and beat my head in with a shovel!
Sarcasm valve now in off position.
Sorry to disappoint you there Einstein, but I keep my license, as well as my insurance, current. So if I get hit by a wetback in a 69 Chevy Impala MY insurance will fix MY car whether he has a license or not.
As far as hitting a nerve..nah, you're not bright enough.
Amusing, isn't it. On the rare occasions I watch TV news, it's a sure line every single time they interview some peasant about the newest outrage.
I'd bet my pinky finger that on the rare occasion someone dare express disgust with their loss of liberty, it would end up on the production room floor faster than you can say "sheeple".
Wow, I must've slept through the 10 o'clock news, I didn't realize 4,000,000 Americans had been killed by terrorists. When did this happen?
Oh wait, you mean the FEAR of terror is motivating you to surrender your liberty. I see.
They will, however, put someone on who can't express themselves well. That way the freedom-loving side can be portrayed as stupid and inarticulate.
If you're frightened that much, why don't you move to a less-populated area, one that is a far less likely target? And leave the people who still have gonads the freedoms better men than you fought and died for.
They just did it in Streator Illinois under the pretense of a murder that took place over a year ago. If you had an air-freshener on your rearview mirror, you got a ticket. It is not a question of "if", it is "when".
I've noticed that too. It's so blatant...
Very well said.
Plus you have one of the best handles on FR, period.
That reminds of some documents we discovered from the Japanese about why they didn't seriously consider invading the United States. Somthing like it would be futile to invade a nation with "100 million snipers".
I've been rolling that around in my mind since I posted. In Virginia, when you accept a drivers license you agree to submit to sobriety tests. You refuse the test(s), your license is revoked no questions asked.
So when you accept a drivers license, you do agree to the terms of having the license. I do agree that driving is a privilege and not a right, but the 4th Amendment states "secure in their persons… against unreasonable searches and seizures". So the question becomes, are random checkpoints ‘unreasonable’?
Taken on it’s own they are unreasonable because they are random. Balanced against public safety, maybe the checkpoints are not so unreasonable after all; however, random checks were part of the reason the Founding Fathers wrote the 4th Amendment.
Take into consideration the 'probable cause' and 'in plain sight' rulings and dishonest police (not all cops are crooks, but it only takes a couple). An officer states “I smell marijuana” and now he has illegal full access to your vehicle. The abuse of the checkpoints are what’s worrying folks (including myself).
Should we even try to balance public safety and the 4th amendment? Freedom comes with responsibility. People are free to get a car and a drivers license, but they are responsible to maintain the vehicle in proper working order, operate the vehicle in a safe manner, and adhere to all applicable laws. If they do not meet these requirements, there are laws covering such behavior. How to we enforce these laws without violating the 4th Amendment?
If people would meet their responsibilities, these checkpoints would not be necessary. I know that’s too much like a perfect world.
Virginia does these random checks all the time for one reason or another and it brings in a lot of cash. Ask a cop and he/she will tell you it’s for the public safety (DUI) or to be fair (checking for valid tags/stickers/license/etc) to catch the ‘cheaters’. I still think they do it for the revenue.
IMO, random checkpoints are unreasonable and a violation. Does the consideration of public safety nudge them into the reasonable zone? I don’t think so, but that’s my take on it. I’ve always put the individual first. Problem is we have too many individuals who are not accepting the responsibility that goes along with their freedom.
I believe you knew the four million was a hypothetical. Your ridicule in the face of such clairty is unnecessary, and speaks volumes of your sincerity in a discussion of this nature.
I know this is not politically correct, but DAMN I am sick of hearing about how losing 3000 people on 9/11 is supposed to justify bending over and taking it from now on.
This pussified culture is a disgrace. We lost 3000 people on many different days during previous wars and it only increased our determination to hold on to liberty.
These 'girlie-men' around us now make me sick. The whole urge to cave when things get even a little scary is shameful to the men who made this country great.
Bump to everything you said. For you, it doesn't get nudged into the 'reasonable' zone. For me, my libertarian side is in conflict with my 'law and order' side, which tries to look favorably on the intentions of police without giving them carte blanche to do as they please. Your points are all perfectly valid and well taken, and I guess all I can say is that I'm hopeless stuck on the fence at this point as to whether or not I agree with these checkpoints. If I give it enough thought, I'll probably fall off the fence onto the libertarian side, as that's how it usually winds up. Take care. :-)
I think your position is clear and I respect your right to have that view. It seems to me that the real issue is whether your right to strut down the street proclaiming your constitutional rights to be free of search (except for probable cause) exceeds my right (and others) to be free of dismemberment by some nut-case terrorist out Sunday afternoon planting explosives in busses and restaurants yearing for his 72 virgins. My views are not based on fear, just a good grasp of reality.
It was also clearly hysterical. Good Lord, get a grip.
If you are a man, which seems doubtful based on your posts, you need to unbind your testicles and let them drop and stop cringing in a corner sucking your thumb.
If you are a woman, find a real man to protect you from the boogeyman you so obviously live in abject fear of.
Your post #77 exactly embodies the mindset that will usher in a total police state, but that is now the 'far right' position according to you.
Yep, still not bright enough. 'lol'
You and me both
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